On the pod, the guys revisit The Gang Sells Out from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia Season 3, Episode 7.
Charlie Day: The new studio.
Glenn Howerton: This is the new space.
Rob McElhenney: This is a jump.
Charlie: This is us, this is who we are now.
Glenn: This is- this is who we are. This is what defines us now.
Rob: Fine tastes and leisure.
Charlie: And no, no headphones.
Rob: No headphones.
Charlie: We are headphone-free. We get to be headphones-free in this space.
Glenn: Oh, okay. I was kind of counting on that for like, hair purposes.
Charlie: You didn't put your ear makeup on? [laughs]
Glenn: Well, I-I just, you know, I got like a little, there's like a little thing that like keeps sticking out on this side. I don't know if you guys can see that.
Glenn: And I was like, oh, you know what? It doesn't matter because I'm gonna have headphones on, and it's gonna cover that right up.
Charlie: It doesn't matter.
Charlie: I'm gonna go ahead and say it doesn't matter either way.
Rob: Your hair looks very high today, in a good way in a good way.
Glenn: It's big?
Charlie: It's big.
Glenn: I haven't had a haircut in a while.
Rob: Okay, but it looks good.
Charlie: I like it-I like it. It was original.
Glenn: Yeah, it's a little big today.
Rob: Yeah, in a good way- in a good way.
Glenn: Thanks, man.
Rob: I really like this studio, Megan.
Rob: I think you and the team did an amazing job.
Charlie: I think you guys-- Cut that, cut that, cut that. You guys did an amazing job. It's beautiful in here. I gotta say I was, like, I think yesterday or the day before, I was thinking, um, I don't wanna do the podcast anymore.
Glenn: Oh, okay, let's dive into that. What's going on there?
Charlie: I feel like- like we did it, you know?
Glenn: Yeah, you think we did it?
Charlie: Yeah, we had some fun episodes, and we did it and, like.
Megan Ganz: Halfway through season three.
Charlie: Well, you know, it was-- I'll tell you what, I'll tell you actually the psychology behind it. Because we now have to do it.
Charlie: And it- it's just the mere fact of having to do it.
Glenn: Why do we have to do it? We don't have to do it.
Charlie: We don't have to do it. But I was like--
Glenn: We did just spend a lot of money on that stuff.
Charlie: We, yeah, so we have to- we have to do it.
Glenn: Megan's like, Megan's like, "Wait a minute, wait."
Megan: I'll find three other guys if you guys don't wanna be in. I'll find three other guys.
Charlie: No, no, it's fine. I do wanna do it. It's just that, like, I was like, I go through phases, right? Like where right now, I'd actually rather be writing some scripts with you guys or on set shooting something. You know, like--
Glenn: Mm-hmm, oh yeah.
Charlie: But only 'cause I've had a little break from it, then I'll be doing that and be like, I don't wanna be doing this.
Rob: I can tell you, I'm in the middle of production right now.
Glenn: You do not wanna be doing it.
Rob: This is exactly where I want to be.
Charlie: This is where you wanna be, yeah. All right, I'm back- I'm back.
This episode, The Gang Sells Out.
Rob: I think right now is my favorite episode that we've watched.
Glenn: I'm so glad to hear you say that. I have always- I've often cited this episode as one of my- one of my favorites. It's not one that I hear fans talking about very often.
Charlie: I would have to agree that this is absolutely one of our best episodes we've ever done.
Glenn: It is. It's just, I don't know if you guys thought about this, but, like, from a technical standpoint, like, the structure of the episode is just really, it's really tight. Like, there's a lot of storylines going on, and then they all start to kind of weave together and in a- in a really, I don't know, really elegant way.
Charlie: I'll give you- I'll throw one shout-out to Rob Rosell and Scott Marder. When we- so season three was the first season, we started hiring, like, writers, and we interviewed people, and I think we said, look, let's come into the room and tell us some general sort of story ideas that you'd like and things. And, you know, they didn't come in with a storyline about like selling the bar, but they did pitch that Frank used to be in a-
Glenn: A doo-wop?
Charlie: -a doo-wop group called the Yellow Jackets. And I mean that- from that moment on, their contribution to the show, was just fantastic. They-they were a real doo-wop group that we hired.
Glenn: Yeah, yeah.
Charlie: Except for the old man.
Glenn: Except for Hawky.
Rob: There was one moment in the entire episode that didn't work, and it was at the very end. And do you remember whether I was watching it and I remember even at the time lamenting it, and we were trying to get this guy to do what we needed him to say.
Charlie: So we wanted Hawky to come up to-- By the way, that actor--
Glenn: Rich Ruccolo.
Charlie: Is so good.
Glenn: He's fantastic.
Rob: He was- he was the guy, one of the guys in Two Guys, a Girl, and a Pizza Place.
Charlie: Oh, that's right.
Rob: The other guy was some movie star.
Charlie: Some, yeah, some-some guy that like, he's like a soccer guy now or something.
Glenn: Right, right.
Rob: Alcohol baron.
Charlie: He's an alcohol baron and soccer guy.
All: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Charlie: That first scene, how we're just arguing amongst each other and then reveal that the man's in the room with us, is that the first time we did it, or we did it in one other episode?
Charlie: Did we do it with Ravi Patel?
Rob: No, we didn't do that.
Rob: That might have been the first time we did this.
Glenn: This is the first time I remember doing it, and I remember when we were coming out with that bit, as we were working on it, thinking that is so, so funny. And I don't remember exactly if it was like, we started with the thing of having the conversation, and then we realized like, oh, what if the guy's already in the room? And we just turned, and he's there.
Charlie: It essentially becomes that entire storyline where you guys take him out the strip bar, and then you-
Charlie: -become consumed with the very funny argument about-
Charlie: -a bear versus an otter and the amount of hair, and the power bottom generating all the speed.
Charlie: It's the same joke.
Rob: Yeah, well, and in the previous scene, it's the same joke as well. Where, and you, but you see the genesis of it of how we wind up on those tangents, where it starts about what we're talking about-
Rob: -and then very quickly becomes about something else in the scene with Frank.
Rob: When we're talking to the- to the guy.
Charlie: All right, to tie it back in, what we wanted Hawky to do-
Charlie: -was walk right up close to Rich. Rick?
Glenn: Was it Rich? I thought it was Rick.
Rob: Rich Ruccolo.
Glenn: I thought he went by Rick.
Charlie: I bet you could go by either. If you're a Rich, you could be a Rick. Anyway, to go right up to Ruccolo.
Glenn: There you go, Ruccolo. [laughs]
Charlie: Right in the eye and go, "Queer."
Charlie: And then after he calls him queer, to then, like-
Glenn: Have a heart attack.
Charlie: Have a heart attack and die.
Glenn: Yeah. Pay the price right away.
Rob: Yeah, and I remember there were conversations of, like, is it kind of sad that this old guy dies? And we were like, let's just make him homophobic. Like, let's just make him go up there-
Rob: -and say something really offensive, and then he dies, and then nobody gives a shit.
Glenn: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Rob: And-and-and we just couldn't.
Charlie: I never give a shit about that, I'm like, yeah, let the people die, let the dogs die.
I'm like, I don't care, to me, it's like if it's funny then--
Rob: No, but that was always the question was like, is it gonna be-is it gonna be funny enough? Or are we gonna, we were still having those kinds of conversations, like-- [crosstalk]
Charlie: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Rob: Well, I don't- I don't know if this is gonna play or if people are gonna--
Charlie: And the man was not really an actor, so he couldn't-
Charlie: -he couldn't do it. And I remember Matt Shakman, who directed the hell out of that episode, being really frustrated.
Glenn: That's right.
Charlie: And then we just kind of had to work around where-- actually, I don't think we had to work around. We just had to cut--
Rob: We had to cut it.
Glenn: We had to cut it out.
Charlie: Yeah, cut it out, and it works fine. It's like he walks up, he has a heart attack but--
Glenn: And do you remember who did- who did the, 'cause that wasn't his voice. One of us, one of us did the [groans].
Charlie: Oh yeah, yeah, one of us did the thing for him. And then, at the end of the episode where we put up the thing, he hadn't actually passed away. It's just the character passing away. Yeah. It kind of looks like [crosstalk].
Glenn: Yeah. It kind of seems like we're saying that the actor passed away. Yeah-Yeah.
Rob: Well, 'cause we've done- we've also done that.
Glenn: Yeah, it's true.
Charlie: And the lifting up of the camera in that was a Matt Shakman thing at the end of the episode where it goes up to the city of Philly, which we did, of course, we were in Philly, so we kind of went to white and clouds, but--
Rob: We did shoot in Philly in that episode, though, which is great.
Glenn: Was that the--
Rob: The job, jobby, jobs.
Glenn: Oh yeah, yeah, that was in Philly.
Rob: That was Philly.
Charlie: Yeah, that's Philly.
Glenn: Where jobs grow on jobbies.
Charlie: The scenes between Mary Elizabeth and Kaitlin were cracking me up.
Glenn: Oh my God, so funny.
Charlie: The two of them together is a good dynamic.
Rob: I love that moment when-when the waitress says to Dee, "I thought you told me you weren't applying here." And she says-
Glenn: "No, that was a lie."
Rob: -"No, that was a lie."
Glenn: "No, that was a lie."
Charlie: That scene is really funny.
Rob: It's really funny. And just the character looking into another person's eyes and saying, yes, that was a lie, you were accepting that, and you're moving on from it.
Glenn: Well, yeah, yeah, exactly, that's the subtext, right? It's like, well, no, that was a lie 'cause that's what I wanted then, and now I want something different.
Rob: You know, do that, right? [laughs]
Glenn: You know, how one does?
Rob: And you have a version of that later when you say to her, well, why aren't you, this is not attractive to me. Aren't you aware of this?
Don't you wanna- don't you wanna be attractive to me?
Glenn: It's the characters’ like just complete and total obliviousness in this episode is at its height. Like, all through the episode, like from beginning to end, it's just like [laughs] every time. I also like the runner of, like, whenever anyone gets handed, you know, an application form to fill out, they're just like [sighs].
Somebody else do this. I don't wanna do this. Which is, by the way, how I feel whenever I'm handed a form.
Charlie: Sure. Who likes forms?
Glenn: If anybody hands me a form, if Jill is anywhere near-- if Jill or Ross are anywhere near me, I'm like, "Here's the form, you do it."
I can't-- I-I hate forms. I hate them. Can we talk about that?
Charlie: You wanna get into forms? Let's go.
Charlie: The stakes of this episode are really real. It never, you know, aside from maybe the doo-wop thing, which is believable, you know that he was in this doo-wop group. We don't have the thing that we had before of, like suddenly we have people running a sweatshop in our, our basement, you know?
Glenn: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Charlie: Also, the music transitions, I remember this. Josh Drisko was cutting it together, and isomething wasn't working and couldn't, we were using Sunny music, and we just stumbled on this sort of '50s rock 'n roll, kind of.
Charlie: Yeah, some doo-wop transitions and some are just like, you know, kind of like what you would imagine, like people roller skating up to a car outside of a-
Glenn: It was the kind of stuff they would've played at The Oldies.
Charlie: At The Oldies Rock Cafe.
Glenn: At The Oldies Rock Cafe, yeah.
Rob: What were we going for? Like a, like a hard rock or like-
Glenn: I think it was a-
Rob: Hollywood-ish type thing, or Fridays or something.
Charlie: And it ties in really well to Danny's storyline and the doo-wop group, and it all is cohesive. And I don't know, that's one that we're like, hey, this-this worked.
Glenn: Yeah. There's, and like, I-I have to say like specifically, I kind of- I do kind of miss playing some of that stuff that-that I get to play in that episode where I'm a little more, you know, manipulative but like, not so frantic, not so, like, on edge the whole time. [laughs]
Megan: I like when you say, "I'm so sorry for not calling you ever." [laughs]
Glenn: Ever, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Charlie: That farmer's tan I'm rocking in that episode.
Megan: Oh my gosh.
Charlie: Is very real.
Glenn: It's legit. Yeah, what happened there?
Megan: That was a make-up.
Glenn: Was that a golf thing?
Charlie: I think so 'cause I think I had just picked up golf that year.
Glenn: Yeah, 'cause you- when did you start playing golf?
Charlie: Well, I-I got like super into it out here, I think when I turned 30, so I think around season three.
Glenn: But you were, you played before, you just- you just weren't that into it?
Charlie: Yeah, like, I'd like, hit balls or my buddies and I- we would like, sneak onto a course and like play three holes and then-
Charlie: -go, you know.
Rob: I would-- since we're talking about Charlie and golf, I might as well bring this up, 'cause I find this fascinating about him. This has nothing to do- to do with the episode and everything to do with Charlie.
Rob: And because, and the podcast, because he's always talking about his memory being terrible.
Charlie: Uh-huh, although I-I will say that I've discovered over the course of doing this podcast, it's-it's better than I thought.
Glenn: It's selective- it's selective, right?
Glenn: It's like if it- if it's interesting to him and it matters to him, he'll remember it.
Rob: So to that end-
Charlie: Very true.
Rob: -to that end, Charlie has a very strange Rain Man-like ability-
Rob: -to play a round of golf with three other people, so you could go out a foursome, and at the end of that round of golf, you could be having a drink afterwards, and he could tell you every single shot that every single person had over the course of the entire round.
Glenn: Is that true?
Rob: I- I've-I've watched him do it. It's like a party trick that I pull out and like impress other people. I'm like, "Bateman, watch this."
Glenn: That is fascinating because-
Charlie: Yeah, I don't know.
Glenn: -I can tell you for sure, but that's also because I don't care about golf, so when I play golf, I'm just like, I can remember how many beers I had usually.
Glenn: You know what I mean? But like, I can't remember, like, any of the shots 'cause none of them were good.
Charlie: I remember a lot about this particular episode, I think, because it was, we felt like it was a good episode, and there are other episodes that I'll watch where I'm like, I can't remember a thing.
Charlie: And it's because the episode doesn't really grab me or whatever.
Rob: Yeah. I remember- I remember shooting a lot of these scenes really well. I remember where we shot them.
Charlie: What I don't remember is where The Oldies Rock Cafe was.
Glenn: That's in Long Beach.
Rob: Yeah, see?
Charlie: Long Beach. I don't remember that.
Rob: Yeah, it's in Long Beach by the aquarium.
Glenn: Yep, near the aquarium.
Megan: Do you guys remember if the "Get a job, strap on my job helmet, and get into a job cannon," was scripted?
Glenn: That was not scripted.
Rob: Well, I think part of if it was, and then Charlie turned it into something else.
Glenn: Yeah, it was like- it was like, go get a job, strap on a job helmet, like it was something that was-
Charlie: I think it was just, oh, go get a job.
Glenn: And-and go get a job where jobs-- [crosstalk] I think it was where jobs grow on trees. I think that was the line.
Megan: Jobs grow on jobbies. [chuckles]
Glenn: And then- and then he just realized, I think in the-- my guess is that you probably realized [laughs] as you were saying, you were like, I just said job-
Glenn: -the word job, like five times. I may as well end it with another job word.
Glenn: With jobbies.
Rob: And I-I remember that was one where we were in the editing room, and I was like, "That's stupid, it should just be- it should just be job trees." And you guys were like--
Glenn: Oh, that's what it was. No, it was job trees. Where jobs grow on job trees.
Rob: Yeah, it was job trees, on job trees. And you guys were like, "No. Wrong. You're wrong, it's jobbies." I was like, "Okay, fine."
Charlie: Yeah. Yeah.
Glenn: Wrong, look at him, [laughs] it's jobbies.
Charlie: It's gotta be jobbies.
Rob: It worked, you were right.
Charlie: There were certain things we established in that episode, like that I had traded all my shares for parts of a sandwich, which…
Rob: Well, there-there is one, um-
Rob: -one glaring mistake.
Glenn: Yeah, and that's The Waitress.
Rob: The Waitress.
Charlie: Where The Waitress says, "Did you even go to high school?"
Glenn: Yeah, did you go to high school, or?
Charlie: You know, that's the thing. What people don't realize is that--
Glenn: It wasn't a mistake at the time, it wasn't a mistake at the time. It's just that we made the mistake later. Well, I think we--
Charlie: I'm saying they sat next to each other, and she didn't remember her.
Glenn: Right. Dee, well, Dee didn't remember The Waitress, but The Waitress remembered Dee.
Charlie: You know what, when you're doing a show, like, another show, is there, like, people who are-are-- 'cause I guess some of it is unprecedented, right? We've been doing our show longer than most shows go. So when we, seven years later, write a joke, you know, you gotta go back through--
Glenn: Yeah, you need an archivist. Like, you need someone with-- a historian.
Charlie: Yeah, you need an archivist.
Rob: There's some things you can justify. Like, for example, my character eventually coming out, right?
Glenn: Yeah, you could see some of the signs of it maybe early on.
Rob: But the idea of The Waitress not knowing that Dee went to high school where, that just simply doesn't make sense.
Glenn: Yeah, it doesn't track.
Rob: And nobody gives a shit. And if you do, fuck off, creeps. I'm talking to you. I'm not talking to the listeners, I'm talking to the creeps.
Charlie: Creeps, the watchers.
Rob: The watchers.
Charlie: They're watching, always watching.
Glenn: They're always watching. Speaking of memory, do you- do you guys have this thing? So, I've noticed recently where-- well, not, I guess not that recently, but, like, when I was a kid, I feel like I could ask my dad almost anything, and he would have- he would know, like, I don't know, maybe 80% of the time he would have- he would know, like, he'd be like, "Oh, you know, that's interestingly enough," and then he would go into like the history of the thing. Or he would know things. I was like, "How do you know that stuff?" And then I thought like, "Oh, when I grow up, I'll- I guess I'll, like, know all that stuff."
I'll know all that stuff too. You know what I mean? And I don't know even a fraction of what my dad knows. And that's partially because he's just far more educated than me. But I do know things that I don't even know how I know them. Do you guys have that? Where like, somebody will, like, your kid will ask you somebody or-or-or like, your wife will ask you something, and she's like, eh, what does that- or like, what does that word mean, or whatever, and you just know?
Rob: I'd say that's dad brain, where you just go, "I'm gonna pretend like I know no matter what because this little motherfucker needs to know who's in charge."
Glenn: Oh. Okay, so you're saying I don't actually know the answer to those questions, and neither did my dad.
No, that's right- that's right. He's just making you feel safe and comfortable, like you got it all under control.
Just don't worry about it.
Glenn: I like to think that I'm the type of person who, if I don't know though, I-I will say like, I-I don't know, but let's look it up. Let's find out.
Charlie: Well, I think that's what changed, right? Now we all have something in our pocket that can, we can instantly get answers.
Glenn: Fact check. Fact check.
Charlie: And so we-we don't need to know as much and then you--
Rob: And maybe you're a little bit more reluctant to just start popping out facts.
Glenn: Right, 'cause homeboy might go look it up, might go google it and find out that his dad's an idiot.
Charlie: That's right.
Glenn: Yeah, he's- yeah.
Charlie: But like back in the day, your dad could just tell you whatever answer.
Charlie: It was better to tell you whatever answer because, A, you know--
Glenn: He knew you weren't gonna shut up until he got your answer.
Charlie: He knew you weren't gonna shut up until he got your answer, and B, he didn't wanna have to drive down to the local library-
Charlie: -and fucking dive into the Dewey Decimal System.
Glenn: What was that system? That was never a good system.
Charlie: Fucking Dewey, man. Fucking Dewey and his fucking decimal system.
Glenn: What an idiot. There was no-- just how about just fucking alphabetical, by category? What's the Dewey Decimal System?
Rob: The Dewey Decimal System was developed by Thomas Dewey, who was then the assistant-
Glenn: Tommy Dewey?
Rob: -district attorney of New York State in 1933.
Glenn: Mm-hmm. Yeah, there you go.
Rob: You know? See, you just say it.
Glenn: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it sounded--
Rob: It's not true.
Charlie: I wasn't able to read whether or not you meant it or--
Rob: No, the Thomas, well, because there's enough historical facts in there to make it sound [crosstalk].
Glenn: The-the Thomas Dewey threw me because there's the actor, Tommy Dewey.
Rob: But Thomas Dewey was a real person. He was like a- he was the governor of New York at one point.
Megan: It was Melville Dewey.
Charlie: It was Melville Dewey.
Rob: His brother. Well, of course. Well, that's why I got them mixed up. It was Melville. His brother.
Charlie: Of course, someone named fucking Melville-
Charlie: -is going to create a system to annoy everybody. "I will force them to look through my small file cabinet, and they will be infuriated with the inefficiency of this." [crosstalk]
Glenn: "No one will understand my system. To me, that makes me feel powerful."
"Going up, sir?" "Your floor, sir."
What was that guy, who was that guy?
Rob: That was the-- Droopy. Droopy, man. Droopy Dog? Droopy Dog? What was that?
Charlie: I think his name was Droopy Dog.
Glenn: Droopy D, I thought it was Droopy D.
Charlie: Droopy D sounds like a rapper. Like a rapper, yeah.
Glenn: "Your floor, sir." Why was he always on an elevator? Was he an elevator operator?
Charlie: He was an elevator operator.
Glenn: Like full time? Like that was his thing?
Charlie: Yeah, that was his thing.
Glenn: Entire episodes take place with just him, fucking hauling people up and down the elevator?
Charlie: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Glenn: That doesn't seem- that doesn't seem right.
Charlie: No, it doesn't seem like you could write a whole season based on the elevator guy.
Glenn: Yeah. That seems- that seems like a fucking acid trip. Like, you know, Hanna, whoever, you know.
Glenn: Hanna Barbera. Well, that-that was two guys, wasn't it?
Rob: No, it was a woman. [laughs] Hanna Barbera was a woman.
Glenn: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rob: Who was creating cartoons in 19, she was actually-- Interestingly enough, she was from Helena, Montana.
Rob: And it was at a time when women weren't--
Glenn: Yes. This all sounds right.
Rob: You just go, you just go with it, right?
Charlie: I believe Hanna Barbera was two people.
Glenn: Yeah-Yeah-Yeah-Yeah. And-and one of them, [crosstalk] one of them must have been like, what-what if there's just, you know, you're at a certain point, you're like, we've done everything. What if there's just like a, I don't know, sort of marble mouth dog-
-with, you know, his whole thing is like, he's got- gotta get people from A to B, but on an elevator, right? So he's an elevator operator, and Barbera's like, "Yeah. I mean, we gotta turn this in by noon, so yes, let's do it."
Charlie: Yeah. Yeah. Go, go.
Glenn: What's his name? Sold.
Rob: Well, that is what a writer's room is. That's what you're doing all day long.
Charlie: Yeah. You know when you're getting in an elevator, and you're in a real rush-
Charlie: -and you just can't wait for that elevator to zip up?
Charlie: What if the guy pushing buttons for you is even slower?
Glenn: That's frustrating.
Charlie: That's frustrating.
Glenn: That is very frustrating.
Rob: Frustration is funny.
Glenn: And frustration is funny.
Charlie: Okay, good news.
Glenn: We are gonna start giving you guys ads.
Charlie: Oh, man.
Baby, I'm excited to say that we are hereby supported by Athletic Greens.
Charlie: Look at this bag of Athletic Greens right here.
Glenn: Guys, if we are gonna sell out, this is not a bad place to start because this is a product that I have been using for quite some time.
Rob: You have brought this up to me before.
Glenn: You know, I'm glad we're getting paid for this because I-I at some point would've probably talked about it anyway, and that would've been like--
Rob: Well, don't tell them that because now they know that you would've done this for free.
Glenn: I would've, but I won't.
Glenn: 'Cause now I know I could get paid for it. Whereas before--
Rob: Green for Green.
Charlie: I have a list of some good things that it has in here, so I'm gonna read it.
Charlie: 75 high-quality vitamins, minerals, whole foods, sourced superfoods, probiotics, and adaptogens.
Glenn: Yeah, yeah.
Rob: It's keto-friendly, paleo-friendly, vegan-friendly, dairy-free, gluten-free.
Charlie: It's a lot of things. You got less than one gram of sugar-
Glenn: And guys, how does it taste?
Charlie: It tastes good. It tastes like what I want a green drink to taste like.
Glenn: And it's what green drinks most often do not taste like.
Charlie: Hard to believe less than a gram of sugar.
Glenn: I care about what I put in my body. I don't know- I don't know about you guys, but I no longer treat myself like a dumpster.
Charlie: Now, I do treat myself like a dumpster, but I need to cleanse my- that dumpster out sometimes with something healthy. Like these Athletic Greens.
Glenn: Yeah, yeah. Something good for your gut.
Rob: Does it help you get a full release in the morning?
Glenn: I didn't have a problem with that before, so I don't know if it's forcing the issue or if it's just--
Rob: I'll tell you what, I just drank a whole bottle of this, I'll let you know.
Rob: 'Cause I got a long drive home.
Rob: Now, what I'm looking for is a full evacuation.
Glenn: On the freeway?
Rob: No, no, no, I wanna wait until I get home.
Rob: Yeah. If it forces it out somewhere on the 405.
Glenn: Then use that same bottle.
To make it easy, Athletic Greens is gonna give you a free one-year supply of immune-supporting vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first purchase.
Charlie: All you gotta do is you gotta visit AthleticGreens.com/sunny.
Glenn: Again, that's AthleticGreens.com/sunny. Now the slash sunny part is-
Rob: Very important.
Glenn: -that's very important 'cause that's how Megan gets paid.
Rob: Yeah. Otherwise, she's gonna get kicked right outta her apartment.
Charlie: Take ownership over your health and pick up the ultimate daily nutritional insurance.
Glenn: Thank you, Athletic Greens. Again, go to AthleticGreens.com/sunny.
Glenn: And get you some.
Rob: Transitioning back to the episode at hand, The Gang Sells Out. I don't know if at, by this point, the listener or the creeps would notice that we are doing ads.
Glenn: Yeah. We're doing ads because we-we're selling out.
Charlie: We're selling out at the same time that the gang sells out.
Glenn: It seemed like the right time to sell out.
Rob: Yeah. It seems like there's a lot of people watching and creeping.
Charlie: Really, like, Megan was just complaining about not getting paid like so much.
Glenn: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Charlie: You know what I mean? And she was like, all this doesn't grow on trees. I'm like, fine. We'll give you your money. It's like so greedy.
Glenn: And then we realized, like, I don't wanna give her my money. So I'll give her the money of the-of the products that I enjoy.
Glenn: You know what I mean? Let's take a group of products that we enjoy-
Glenn: -and we'll say, give us money.
Glenn: Like that, say it like that.
Glenn: And then they will, and then we'll give it to Megan.
Rob: But isn't it just like-like-
Glenn: And we'll keep a hefty portion of it ourselves.
Rob: -you know, a-a mom, like a mom, like the guys are just having fun. The dudes are just hanging- having fun. They're drinking their water and maybe a beer or two every once in a while, hanging out, and then-
Rob: -like, mom comes in, and she's like, you have to monetize this.
Charlie: Do you have anything to say for yourself, Megan? In fact, no. We don't even wanna hear it.
Rob: Cut that.
Glenn: By the way, are you guys seeing this samurai sword up here, I just noticed that.
Charlie: Oh yeah, we got samurai swords. You know what ads pay for, fucking pianos, samurai swords.
Rob: Cut that, cut that, cut that.
Charlie: We got shit to pay for, all right?
Glenn: So we're doing ads now, we're selling out.
Charlie: Hey, everybody, grow up.
Glenn: It's the way the world works.
Charlie: It's not about- it's not all about you.
Rob: Yeah, we can't do shit for free.
Glenn: It's the way the world works.
Rob: We can't hear it from Megan. I mean, it's not fair. Megan can't pay her rent and shit.
Charlie: Yeah. [crosstalk]
Glenn: I'm gonna say mortgage.
Megan: I'm gonna sleep in this studio.
Charlie: You know, people are trying to, you know, survive, man. [laughs]
Rob: Stop complaining.
Glenn: What do you guys think about the whole concept of selling out, you know what I mean? Like what do- what-what do you think? What-what do you- what does that bring up for you? You know what I mean? Have you- have you ever been accused of selling out, and does that bring something up for you? You know what I mean? Like--
Charlie: Sure. Of course. But, like. Yeah, it's an interesting thing, right? I had a good-- I had a- did I tell you my story about John Malkovich? When I was- I was doing a movie with John, and I had shot a commercial over the weekend. I think it was for DirecTV.
Charlie: And I was kind of embarrassed because John is one of the great American actors-
Charlie: -and great world actors. I mean, he's just one of the- one of the best. So I was a little bit like, oh man, I'm-I'm a cheesy, like a commercial guy, here's John. And we were between scenes, and he, you know, he was like, "How was your weekend?" And I was like, "Oh, well."
Glenn: "How was your weekend?"
Charlie: Yeah, I was like, "Well, you know, it was good. I mean, I kind of sold my soul, you know, and did a- did a commercial." He goes, "Mm-hmm." And I said, "Have you ever done a commercial?" And he goes, "Well, I've done hundreds of them."
And he goes, "And you don't sell your soul, you rent it."
Charlie: And so I was like, "Fuck yeah, man. Thank you, John."
Glenn: Has he done? Maybe just his voice.
Charlie: No, no.
Glenn: You'd recognize that voice, what has he done?
Charlie: He's done-- look it up. He's done commercials. I-I actually remember him--
Glenn: Just him selling fucking Tide PODS and shit?
Charlie: Well, you know, he probably, I think, like anything, you wanna make sure it doesn't feel like.
Glenn: "You put the laundry into the laundry machine."
I can't do it, I don't know that was- that was an attempt.
Charlie: "You have to wash your clothes." I don't know. Who knows? He's a very unique guy. But I don't know selling out, it's, you know, part of the thing.
Rob: This is a profession. I don't think anybody out there expects us to do these kinds of things for free.
Glenn: I think it's- I think it's an overused expression, right? But I do think there is a- there is a point at which selling out, you know, you could maybe accuse someone of-of selling out.
Rob: I think if there was a product on-on here that we're, we've already gone, we've had the conversation in private, but let's just have it in public. Like, we're vetting any company that we're- that we're considering showing for, right?
Rob: And so, and it doesn't necessarily mean that we're all gonna agree every single time with every move that a company or product makes. But if we can at least understand that we are not, like, we're not putting something out into the world that we think is negative.
Glenn: Inferior, an inferior product.
Charlie: Yeah. It definitely changed. Like it used to be if you were a big A-list actor and you wouldn't- you wouldn't do a Hyundai commercial, you know, like a car commercial or whatever.
Glenn: Not in America.
Charlie: Not in America. You would go over to Japan, and, you know, like it wouldn't be seen. And then [clears throat] people just, you know, like Sam Jackson or whatever was just like, no, I'm just gonna do commercials, and movies, and TV, or whatever. Yeah, the line got blurred. And thank God, because, like, that 1% of actors, yeah, they make an elite living, you know, but they basically made it okay for everyone else to like--
Glenn: Right. The-The-The people who aren't making as much money as Samuel Jackson can now go and do it and not feel like they're selling out.
Charlie: Or, yeah. Or not-not work again, you know?
Rob: Are you suggesting that you're struggling?
Rob: 'Cause we've already been- we've been to celebrity net worth, we know what--
Charlie: No, I-I--
Rob: We've established what you're worth.
Charlie: By the way, most of my money comes in and goes out to other wonderful, charitable things like taking care of Megan, but she's so-
Megan: Thanks, Charlie.
Glenn: Yeah. She is very greedy, that's true.
Charlie: At some point, we have to start doing ads.
Rob: Well, I think if we're gonna do it, let's do it, like, let's have fun while we do it. And one of our- one of our sponsors is a company called Manscaped.
Rob: And they sent us some scaping tools, and Glenn and I haven't spoken to you directly, but through Megan, I heard that you would be interested in us potentially shaving your chest hair.
Glenn: Well, I, I'm-I'm open to it, yeah. I don't know that I wanna do it today, but maybe.
Rob: Well, you just got back from Hawaii. There might be a nice base coat.
Charlie: There's probably never a better time.
Glenn: Yeah, except I-- are we- are we talking about-- how-how short are we talking about?
Rob: What I'd like to do- what I'd like to do is, if-if it's nice and thick, I'd like to carve an S into your chest and have you just be Superman for-for a day.
Rob: I thought that would be cool.
Glenn: Okay. Yeah, I don't know that it'd be cool, but, uh--
Rob: He was the original.
Glenn: Yeah, he was the original, that's true.
Charlie: But he-he wasn't hairy. That's the thing.
Rob: No, but he had- he had the S emblem on the--
Charlie: You think Superman had, like, a really hair butt, you know what I mean?
Charlie: Like-like-like, everything was smooth except the butt. Like, he was from a planet where they had like--
Glenn: Just hairy from the waist down.
Charlie: Just like baboon butt, you know, or baboon butt's not hairy. It's like an explosion of-of strange flesh, like an outie butt.
I was at the zoo recently, and it's never not upsetting to see a monkey's butt.
Charlie: Like, it looks painful. You're like, what is going on with his butt, it's all jammed up.
Glenn: Looks inverted.
Charlie: Lumpy. It's like a brain on its ass, like, what is happening outside of it?
Rob: Have any of you guys ever used a man-scaping tool?
Glenn: Yeah. I've used-I've used clippers.
Rob: When did that start happening, though? Because I- because-because when-when did it become okay socially for men to be- to be clipping their body hair?
Glenn: I bring it back to Brad Pitt in Fight Club.
Charlie: And you think it all-all--
Glenn: I think that's where it all starts.
Charlie: All rivers flow back there?
Glenn: I think all rivers flow.
Charlie: He let us do commercials, he let us trim our body hair. He fucking kicked down doors.
Glenn: Brad Pitt, you know, I mean, he was just, he was so hairless in that movie, that-- [crosstalk]
Rob: You think that was impossible? Like, that was definitely not natural, it was taken off?
Rob: That would have to be a razor.
Glenn: That-that, now we're getting into razor territory.
Megan: He's a turtle shell.
Glenn: What's that?
Megan: He's smooth as a turtle shell.
Rob: Because I think- I feel like it's socially acceptable for men to, like, trim up hair to make it shorter, right? Like-like men don't generally get shit for that from other men.
Rob: But if you were to take a BIC razor-
Rob: -to your body. [laughs]
Glenn: Lots of body-body- bodybuilders have been doing that for years.
Rob: Sure, sure, sure. [crosstalk]
Charlie: It depends on your physique, right? Like, like, if you are pretty out of shape, and you have hairy, like, arms-
Charlie: -and you've BIC razor-ed to your chest, it's gonna look weird.
Glenn: Right. [laughs]
Charlie: Like you're gonna like, you know, like-
Glenn: Right. Just hairy arms and nothing?
Charlie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you are super tan and ripped, and you're all shaved up too, you're probably, like, we're used to seeing that, so we're like, okay, I guess that's your look fine. I don't know.
Glenn: Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Listen I, here's the thing, I'll be totally honest with you, guys. I'm not in great shape right now. I'm fine. It's fine. You know what I mean? But, like, I-I broke my collarbone, and I stopped going to the gym, and then I never went back. [laughs]
Rob: That's funny.
Glenn: I still haven't gone back. Yeah. Yeah, so I would--
Charlie: Hey, man, I feel you.
Glenn: Here's what I want. We'll do- if we're gonna do this, if we're gonna trim my body hair--
Charlie: You'd like a week of prep in the gym, at least, right?
Glenn: No, no, no. What I was gonna say is, let's do it, let's do a before and after, right? Let's do it now-
Glenn: -when I'm a little, you know, pudgy around the middle and-and let's just, and then give me, I don't know, 8, 12 weeks to get in-in shape again. And-and then let's do it again.
Glenn: You know what I mean? So I have the opportunity to show people what I'm really capable of-
-in terms of my physique, you know what I mean?
Rob: Okay, so you're saying you're-you're 8 weeks out. 8 to 12 weeks out at any given moment?
Glenn: Well, depends on what we're-- it depends on what kind of a standard we're trying to reach.
Rob: Well, you set the standard. What are you looking for?
Glenn: Brad Pitt in Fight Club. That is the standard. We've already established that.
Rob: Got it. Got it.
Charlie: I read an article about, like, age that-that, so much of it is what you think about your age. Like-like, the mental side of it is such a big part of it. Do you feel as though you have limitations now with your age to get into Brad Pitt Fight Club shape, or do you feel as though you could get there?
Glenn: The only- the only thing limiting, I would say most people, honestly, well, there's two things. One is, you know, willpower, right? Do you have the will to-to push through the hunger, to push through the-the-the workouts, you know, to-to carve out that time in your schedule? But also like resources, right?
Glenn: Like if you've got- if you're rich as hell and you've got a gym in your house, and you've got, you know, you can- you can afford like all the supplements in the world, and you can shoot peptides into your body.
Charlie: What are peptides?
Rob: Oh, buddy.
Glenn: You don't know peptides?
Rob: I don't know from peptides, though. But you-you forgot the most important thing, which is genetics.
Glenn: Well, that's true.
Rob: Do you have the genetics to actually?
Glenn: 100%, 100%. It starts, that's probably number one, right?
Glenn: And then number two is, I think, time and-and yeah, like your, your willingness to-to-to go through all that, 'cause it's a lot of work.
Rob: But as you age, it definitely gets harder.
Glenn: Oh, for sure.
Rob: For men, you have less testosterone. You- your skin looks, so you're never gonna look the same as you would in your 20s, even if you've got into the same kind of shape, our skin's all stretched out and shit. I'm getting things hacked off my body every other week from sun damage from the vinegar.
Glenn: Oh, Jesus Christ.
Rob: I got a big old thing on my face I gotta get cut out.
Charlie: On your face?
Rob: On my face.
Glenn: I don't see it.
Rob: Yeah. You can't- you can't see it. You'll see it when there's a giant scar there. You know what I mean? [crosstalk]
Glenn: Are you- are you wearing makeup right now? Why can't I see this thing on your face?
Charlie: What's wrong with your face?
Glenn: The fuck are you talking about?
Rob: I've already had, you know, have you- have you had things removed from your body?
Rob: Okay. So they remove it, then they biopsy it.
Rob: And so this one I got, they biopsied it, and it's, like, some kind of-- [crosstalk]
Glenn: There is nothing on your face.
Rob: You can't see it because they cut it off.
Charlie: Buddy, you might need to switch dermatologists because this guy might be making a killing off you just being like, "Here's a rich guy. I'm just gonna keep chopping shit off of him."
Glenn: Yeah, I'm gonna chop this guy.
Charlie: You know what I mean? 'Cause I-I went to a guy, this is years ago, and got some, like, I had a freckle on my back, and I have a big scar now from, they cut it off and like 12 stitches or whatever. And then I go to a different guy now, and it's like, I, he's never, he's barely cutting off anything.
Charlie: You know what I mean? And I feel like the other guy was just knife happy.
Rob: Well, maybe the- maybe the first, maybe the first one was a good doctor and this one's killing you.
Charlie: Well, no, not judging by the office, the second guy's got a better- better-looking office, so.
Glenn: You do wonder how those doctors get into certain specialties, right? You go to med school 'cause very, you know, very few people when they're, you know, six years old, and all the other kids are like, "I wanna be an astronaut." "I wanna be a football player." And he's like, "I wanna shave people's, you know, parts of their skin off and then biopsy them." Nobody does that, so they.
Charlie: "I wanna look at their moles."
Glenn: "I wanna look at moles. I wanna stick my finger up a guy's butt all day long."
Nobody's dream is that when they're a kid. Talking about proctologist.
Rob: You're just demeaning doctors [laughs].
Glenn: I'm not demeaning them.
Rob: Nobody wants to be a doctor.
Glenn: I didn't say that.
Rob: Who the fuck wants to be a doctor?
Glenn: I didn't say that.
Rob: No, but you said no kids wanna be a doctor.
Charlie: He said no kid dreams of being a proctologist.
Glenn: See, this is your problem. You don't listen to the specificity of what I'm saying.
Charlie: He's talking about a proctologist.
Glenn: I was about--
Charlie: He was talking about moles.
Glenn: What I was about to say was-was a kid does grow up though thinking, "I wanna be a doctor." And then eventually, that turns into, well, I don't- I just- I, you know, and some people do just become internists or general practitioners, and you know, whatever. But then, you know, somewhere along the way, somebody's gotta go, well, I guess I'll be the butt guy. [laughs] You know what I mean? I guess I'll check out buttholes.
But, like, are you already into that shit? Like, are you going through med school-
Glenn: -and you're like discovering that you're like, I- I'm kind of fascinated by, like, what's inside people's butts, you know?
Glenn: I wanna see the butt itself. Then I want to go through the butt and see everything. I wanna see the journey from the butt hole through the intestines, you know what I mean?
Rob: Maybe, or you look at it and say, like, so many men die of prostate cancer.
Glenn: So you're just seeing dollar signs.
Rob: No, you're thinking that you wanna save lives.
Maybe it's a doctor selling out.
Charlie: There's a lot of money in butts. There's a lot of money.
Rob: There's a lot of money in saving lives.
Glenn: Not a lot of people wanna do it, and I do.
Let's do a coffee company.
Glenn: Let's get some good coffee.
Charlie: I love coffee. I don't think I could ever give up coffee.
Charlie: I don't think I could ever not drink coffee.
Glenn: I've tried.
Charlie: Why, but why-why did you try to get off of it? You were having too much?
Glenn: I was having too much, and I was starting to feel like it was actually having the opposite effect on me. Like it was making me manic and-and-and sleepy at the same time.
Glenn: Like not, it wasn't doing the good stuff, all the good stuff was gone. I wasn't getting the endorphins, I was just getting, like, the anger.
Charlie: That's true. I can confirm that.
Rob: Yeah, I can confirm. I was gonna say if I had to describe you in three words, it would be manic, sleepy, and angry.
Charlie: I read a book on something called neurophysical pain, which was like, this is really interesting, so--
Glenn: What was the book?
Charlie: It was called The Way Out. I forget.
Glenn: That's not Sarno, is it?
Charlie: Maybe? Yeah, well, I read some article with Jared Leto, and he was saying he read this book, and then he got outta, like, back pain. I don't have back pain.
Glenn: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was like, he had like severe pain and shit.
Charlie: Yeah, and so I've had hip pain for a while, and so I was like, I'll read the book. It was really interesting. So, like, the guy used the example of if I were a hypnotist and he said an unethical hypnotist, and I hypnotized you, and I told you your arm was on fire, you'd run around the room trying to pat it out and then I'd wake you up, and I'd ask you, what was it like? And you would say it was extraordinary pain.
Charlie: And to you in that moment, the pain was real. Your brain was sensing it, it became real. He used another example of a guy who was on a construction site who stepped on a nail. The nail went all the way through his shoe, and he's screaming. They bring him to the hospital, they, like, saw the shoe off, and by the time they get to his foot, they see that the nail's gone between the toes and not actually gone in his-his foot at all.
Charlie: But the pain was very real, right?
Glenn: That's a real story?
Charlie: Supposedly. Um, and so he was saying like, oftentimes when people, like, will injure their neck in a car accident or something, and then the body will heal in-in its course of time, but the brain keeps- it's like a mistake in the wiring.
Glenn: That's right.
Charlie: Your brain keeps sending the alarm system and saying, oh, you're in pain. Or anytime you start to sense pain, the fear comes up. It was an interesting book.
Rob: Phantom limbs.
Charlie: Phantom limbs and shit.
Glenn: I can tell you from experience, with absolute certainly, that that is true. It's certainly for me, sorry, for me.
Charlie: Yeah, yeah.
Glenn: I had, I mean, you guys remember, used to have horrible back pain. I used to throw my back out all the time. Doesn't ever happen anymore, ever, at all, ever. And that was due to multiple factors, but one of them being I stopped telling myself the story. This is, I think, this was I think, the biggest contributing factor to me stopping, not having back pain anymore. I stopped telling myself that I had back problems. And every day, I would tell myself, I have a- my back is- you guys don't know.
Charlie: No, no.
Glenn: I can tell, I can see, you guys will make fun of me.
Charlie: No, I'm with you on this. I believe.
Glenn: It's the power- it's the power of the mind, but I would tell myself like my body is strong, my body is healthy, my back is strong, there's nothing wrong with my back.
Charlie: The power of the mind is massive, you know?
Charlie: I think that's something you have innately, which is like a-- you know, I-- is it true, and I feel like you've said this before, like, you've never had the flu?
Rob: I've ne- I've never had the flu, no. But I think it's a-- that's like a genetic thing, 'cause my dad's never had the flu, my mom's never had the flu, his-
Glenn: That's extraordinary.
Rob: -his father never had the flu.
Charlie: That's crazy.
Megan: He thought he was immune to COVID, but then I gave it to him.
Charlie: [laughs] See, I think I-- I'm one of the people who's immune to COVID because I had every flu. I had COVID 1 through 18.
Charlie: So by the time 19 came around, my body was like, huh? Oh, yeah--
Glenn: Yeah, that's no biggie.
Charlie: I had all the COVIDs growing up.
Glenn: I, see, I think I may uh, so I haven't gotten COVID yet either and I don't know why. I've been exposed, I know I've been exposed to it, like--
Charlie: Well, there is-
Rob: Or are you-
Charlie: -but then maybe you--
Rob: -but are you being- are you being tested constantly? 'Cause I'm constantly being tested.
Glenn: I am not, and I was when we were doing-
Rob: Yeah, so you might have had it and not even know.
Glenn: -the last season of Saints-- it's possible, but like usually even the pe-- like-
Charlie: No, I worked the whole way through.
Glenn: -to be that asymptomatic? Like, I mean it is- it is possible, yes.
Glenn: Um, it is possible that I had it and just was, yeah, asymptomatic, but I--
Charlie: So If you got it, you'd just be like, "Sickness be gone."
Rob: Well, that's-- but--
Charlie: My favorite thing you've ever done on the show, man. My absolute favorite thing, and I say it all the time.
Rob: But-but part of-but part of why it's so great is that it's partially true. Like pseudoscience, the reason that pseudoscience works is that there, uh, uh, in people, is because, like, psychosomatic phenomena are real-
Rob: -and if you keep telling yourself that you're sick, then you're eventually going to get sick-
Charlie: Yeah, for sure.
Rob: But that-- but then-then there's limits to that, if you break your femur, your femur is fucking broken-
Rob: -whether you believe it or not.
Rob: But the power of the mind, uh, I mean, you-you see it on ca-- on-- every day, you have to believe that you're happy, you have to believe that you're-- but if you have a brain chemical imbalance, you-- it doesn't matter how much you believe, you gotta take medication.
Glenn: I mean, that's why those gratitude journals are so effective because you're forcing yourself to think about the things that you're grateful for on a daily basis, and you're slowly changing your brain chemistry to-to-to think more in a, uh, about appreciating the things that you do have, appreciating what you do have going for you, and not focusing so much on the negative. And that is really something I totally, totally struggle with.
Megan: I also like focusing on stuff that I really love. And to that end, I have to bring up that in this episode is one of my fav-- all-time favorite Sunny jokes, which is the conversation about wooed and wood.
Charlie: [unintelligible 00:42:27]
Megan: When Charlie-
Charlie: That was an Adam side joke-
Megan: -an Adam side joke-
Charlie: -yeah, so--
Megan: -when Charlie mistakes wo-- the conversation about you guys wanted to be wooed for, yeah, we should get some wood, yeah.
Charlie: I was thinking about that, like that's the kind of joke-
Charlie: -that we would've done with me early in the show, and I feel like you guys would not be into that if it got pitched now, am I wrong?
Glenn: I-I, no, well, I think, as I recall-
Charlie: Or am I right?
Glenn: -at the time, even, I was on the fence about it, but I do reme-- I think it was one of those situations for me where I was like, well, let's get-get it, 'cause, you know uh, uh, Charlie thinks it's funny or like these guys think it's funny and you know, let's-let's get it. I wasn't like totally against it, but I do think I was actually thinking at the time like that's so stupid.
Megan: It's so funny. [laughs]
Charlie: We've never landed on how stupid any of us are, right?
Rob: No, yeah, it's a--
Charlie: Like-like I sort of was out, out of the gate first-
Rob: It's a moving target.
Glenn: -it's a moving target.
Charlie: -being like, okay, I'm gonna be the dumb guy in the group, and that will be what's funny. And then the dumbness really got moved around. [laughs]
Rob: Aren't you also reading that resume? I can't remember if you got specific or-or--
Charlie: No, I don't think I-I wouldn't have been reading by that point, 'cause the-- season two, we pretty much locked in that joke.
Rob: Right, so you're lo-- but you're looking at Dennis's resume, and you're saying like this all looks pretty--
Charlie: That's a good scene between the two of us.
Glenn: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're not reading anything. Oh yeah, he's just-he's just making shit up.
Rob: Yeah, he's just making shit up.
Glenn: Just making shit up.
Charlie: Yeah, yeah.
Glenn: It's a funny scene.
Glenn: I like-I like that moment where you're like, can I just take a peek at that?
Charlie: I'm just standing there.
Glenn: And then just standing there like-- [laughs]
Charlie: I love the tone, like the-the level of the humor in that episode is so good to me. Like, just like, it's never-- we're never quite manic and raging, and it all works pretty good.
Glenn: Yeah. It's-it's-it's dialed in in a really funny way in that episode, I think, yeah.
Megan: I got one-one more question for you guys, which is if you had to strap on your job helmets and go get another job, what would it be? If you had to leave writing TV and making podcasts?
Charlie: Wait, uh, do you mean like outside of entertainment?
Rob: And do we have the same fa-- uh--
Megan: And you have the skills to do whatever you--
Rob: Oh, oh, we have the skills to actually do the thing that we wanna do?
Megan: Yeah, yeah.
Charlie: Okay, okay.
Glenn: Oh, oh, oh, okay so we--
Megan: Yeah, yeah.
Charlie: But we're not us, like we haven't done what we've been doing?
Charlie: It's like a fresh start.
Megan: You went down another path.
Charlie: It's a--it's uh, uh, interdimensional sort of question here, right?
Charlie: Like, so, okay, um--
Glenn: Hmm, I think something, I feel like something in the sciences, I don't know, like, I like science stuff in theory--
Megan: Be a butt doctor?
Glenn: What's that?
Charlie: You'd be a butt doctor?
Megan: You'd be a butt doctor? [laughs]
Glenn: No, not the science of the butt.
Charlie: What's in the--
Charlie: What's in the hole?
Glenn: Yeah, [laughs] what's in the hole?
Charlie: How is it feeling?
Rob: In-in this, we-we could be the best at what we do?
Megan: Yeah, sure.
Glenn: Well, I mean, uh, uh, I'd be a soccer play-- I'd be a professional soccer player.
Charlie: Yeah, yeah I was gonna say, yeah.
Rob: That'd be pretty sweet.
Glenn: Yeah, that'd be pretty sweet.
Charlie: I'd be the world's best golfer, I guess.
Megan: Just sports?
Rob: Mm, I-I think I would wanna run a company that-
Charlie: Life on the road.
Rob: -makes cars and rockets.
Glenn: Oh, so you'd wanna be Elon Musk?
Charlie: Yeah, you would be an inventor?
Rob: Yeah, uh, uh, well he-he's--
Glenn: Or would just be like-
Rob: More of an industrialist, I think I would be an industrialist.
Glenn: Uh, okay or would you be, like, the guy who just goes out and is, like, the face of the company and-and-and just sell, or do-- are you actually, you know, getting in the lab?
Rob: Well cause-cause Elon-Elon Musk uh, is that and also has the ability to get into the lab and break down physics and whatnot.
Glenn: That is true right? That is true, he can- he can kind of do both I mean--
Rob: He can build rockets and su-- and supercars, and--
Charlie: Don’t think I'd wanna do that, as cool as it is.
Glenn: Just sounds like a lot of work, doesn't it?
Charlie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like I'd be in offices all days.
Glenn: Does he love it, is he happy?
Charlie: Uh, he hasn't calculated the happiness yet. He could probably do some charts and see, you know it's-- happiness isn't actually, I've broken it down, and I don't know the science. He kind of talks like that a little bit?
Rob: He sounds pretty happy.
Charlie: I've broken it down and it's uh, you know, I have degrees of-
Glenn: Does he?
Charlie: -happiness, and uh, it's not as useful to be happy as you would think. Uh, it actually, the problem with happiness is--
Glenn: It gets in the way.
Rob: Well, but I feel like people at that level, uh, uh, I feel like Elon Musk and Tiger Woods are exactly the same. Like, I don't think Tiger Woods seems very happy to me. In fact, Elon Musk seems way happier than Tiger Woods.
Glenn: So there's a- there's a drive.
Rob: He seems like when Michael Jordan was at his peak, he didn't seem happy. In fact, he wasn't happy.
Glenn: Right, you too-- no, I think it-
Rob: He says it in the documentary.
Glenn: I-I-I think you would be tormented by that degree of drive.
Glenn: Right? If-- when you-- if you have-- you're striving for something, nothing's ever good enough, which is why-
Glenn: -you are so good at what you do because you push yourself to the limit, and you strive to be the best at the thing-
Glenn: -you're doing but, uh--
Charlie: Yeah, and you drive satisfaction from that.
Rob: But you can’t ever achieve that.
Glenn: I thi- I think-- I'm sure you derive moments of satisfaction from that-
Glenn: -but like overall sort of happiness, yeah, I doubt it.
Megan: If I could have another job, it would be something like simpler and more clear cut, like-like, moving cinder blocks from one part of a room to the other.
Glenn: Right, right.
Megan: You know what I mean?
Glenn: Something simple.
Megan: Something that's not subjective at all, that like, I would either know if it was done or not, like 'cause that's the hard part is being a perfectionist and being in a job that there is no, like, perfect.
Glenn: Yes, yeah.
Megan: That's hard.
Glenn: Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you were, like, a carpenter or something with-
Glenn: -precision, yeah, you could actually see your precision hit its final endpoint and know, like, if the cut is right, you know you've done what you were supposed to do, versus--
Rob: I don't know if you- if you have that personality type though, it's never-
Glenn: The cut is never quite--
Rob: -it could always be a little bit better-
Rob: -or a little bit different-
Rob: -or a little bit-- this 'cause that's still an artist.
Charlie: Well, that's the maddening thing about what we do, right? Well, there is no perfect, it's very undefinable.
Rob: You know what? I ju-- speaking of gratitude, um, uh, I-I have a-- had a very big moment of gratitude this morning when I was driving here because do you-- Glenn, you know, what's two blocks away from here, from this studio?
Glenn: Uh, well, I heard you-
Rob: My very first apartment in Los Angeles-
Glenn: -saying it as I was walking in and you were talking about how--
Rob: -is two blocks away from here.
Glenn: With the man who's gotten more mentions on this podcast-
Rob: Chris Backus, Mr. Chris Backus.
Glenn: -than anyone else, Chris Backus.
Rob: And I was pulling-- I was driving by and I drove-drove past it and then I pulled into the- into the- into the parking spot, and I came into this studio, and I was very grateful. I feel like we've come a long way.
Rob: That was a shit-hole apartment. I moved there--
Megan: You come a long way? That was only two blocks.
Rob: It got, uh, it took 20 years to come two blocks but, man, it's on the-the outside looks very different, but the inside--
Glenn: I have very specific memories of being in that apartment with you, and with Chris. Uh, we watched the entire first season of America's Next Top Model.
Rob: Mm-hmm. Yeah, we were huge, huge fans of that.
Glenn: We just-- we thought it was so incredible, that show.
Rob: Love that show.
Glenn: Uh, drank a lot of Folgers coffee-
Glenn: -if I'm not mistaken, correct?
Rob: Oh yeah.
Glenn: You just-- you were rocking the Folgers--
Rob: We, yes.
Glenn: Uh, we--
Rob: And we were on a budget.
Glenn: Yeah, we, um--
Glenn: -we started writing that movie- we started writing a movie together. A movie called, that we were at the time calling Mind Games.
Rob: Oh sure.
Glenn: Um, and--
Rob: We were doing all so-- we were just hustling.
Glenn: I have a specific memory of actually being in the pool of your apartment building, 'cause we were, like, we needed a break.
Charlie: Oh, you had a pool in the middle? I don't--
Glenn: We had lots of coffee and we were like--
Rob: It was one of those weird pools that-- if that anybody who's ever lived-
Glenn: Right in the center.
Rob: -in Los Angeles would know, would be in the center of the building, where there's no sun, so the sun, there was only like sun on the- on the pool for like a 45-minute period when it's, like, directly over top of it.
Charlie: How long were you there in that- in that apartment, one year?
Rob: One year.
Charlie: That's it?
Rob: That's it.
Glenn: God, man, time goes so much faster now 'cause it seemed like--
Rob: One year.
Rob: And I just remember walking all of these streets for hours 'cause I had nothing to do during the day, 'cause I worked at the restaurant at night, and so I would just walk, like through the streets for exercise, and also just so I didn't go insane.
Glenn: Were you just-- were you just contemplating your dreams?
Rob: No, I was trying to think about, like, how I could not be doing this anymore.
Glenn: How you could get out this hole?
Rob: How I could convince--
Charlie: How to get out of the apartment.
Rob: How do I find-
Rob: -people who are more talented and funny, and [crosstalk] just latch onto them.
Glenn: And latch on them.
Rob: And hold on for dear life. And I did, and I'm grateful for that.
Charlie: You know, uh-
Charlie: -that's a good move. Yeah. You gotta latch on to people.
Charlie: You know, uh.
Glenn: Got to surround yourself with people that are smarter and better than you, and that's what you did. That's what I did.
Charlie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or the-- the drive, driven, you know, uh, organized, uh--
Glenn: You gotta latch onto somebody who will do the majority of the work for you.
Rob: I've driven and organized. And-and--
Charlie: Driven and organized.
Charlie: You know.
Rob: Driven and organized, yes.
Rob: And what we do is we find people like you and we just stick our hooks in, and we just slowly bleed you dry over a four-year period.
Charlie: It's like-
Glenn: That's okay.
Charlie: -a shark and the fish that's, like, swimming all over.
Rob: Yeah. I'm the remora. I'm the remora.
Charlie: They work, uh, what is it called?
Rob: Yeah, you're the shark, I'm the remora.
Charlie: Dad fact. Uh, they, they need each other.
Rob: Dad fact? They don't understand.
Charlie: The-the shark needs it for some reason, but like, uh--
Glenn: They-- does he clean it? Does he clean them or something?
Charlie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There's lots of those things in the sea, just like, picking shit off each other.
Rob: Or like I'm one of those birds.
Charlie: They-they-they like, swim into their mouths and clean out their tongues, like, uh, thanks, man.
Get the teeth. It's like, I guess I won't eat you.
Rob: Or the, like the-- like the big-- the big animal, like the moose or something where they-- they have the birds that live on them and just eat the insects.
Charlie: Yeah, the birds.
Glenn: Oh, yeah.
Charlie: Yeah, they keep-- the antlers are fresh and, uh--
Rob: Yeah, see, uh, but I'm not-
-a bird out there, like, polishing antlers.
Charlie: Yeah. Let me get-- let me get these bugs off your antlers.
Rob: But see, I-I think I would probably be-- I wouldn't be the moose or the birds. I would be the tick that you-you don't even know is there.
Glenn: Oh yeah. You didn't realize he's there just sucking you dry and infecting you.
Charlie: No, no, because we know-- Uh, because we benefit from-- the-the-they-- you don't benefit from the tick in the relationship.
Charlie: Did-- we-we benefit from one another.
Meg: Symbiotic relationship.
Rob: Sym-symbiotic relationship.
Glenn: Symbiotic relationship.
Charlie: Symbiotic relationship.
Glenn: Symbiotic relationship.
Rob: That's why we put up with each other and love each other.
Glenn: God bless you, guys.
Rob: For all this-- all these years.
Glenn: Quite grateful.
Rob: God bless you.
Charlie: And, uh-- and you know-- and with the fans, you know, we're-- we-we have a relationship up with them where they're forced to listen to our advertisements.
Glenn: They're not forced to do anything, this might be the end.
Charlie: -they can like it or not like it, you know?
Rob: That's sort of been the attitude of the show, all the-- all the way through, which is like, we're gonna do the thing, if you like it, great. If you don't, fuck off. Fuck off.
Charlie: That's showbiz, you know, that's showbiz.
Rob: That's life.
Charlie: That's life, man.
Glenn: That's life, baby.
Rob: Can't-- you can't please everybody.
Rob: You just try to please a very specific demographic of 18 to 34-year-old adults.
Rob: That's it. And everybody else can fuck off.
Charlie: That's pretty true.
Glenn: That's a real sell-out-y thing to say.