On the pod, the guys revisit The Gang Goes Jihad from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia Season 2, Episode 2.
Glenn: Wait, are we rolling?
Glenn: Let's get into it.
Charlie: -it's 9:30 in the morning.
Glenn: Yeah, it sure is. 9:30 I believe, the time that we said we were gonna meet for this podcast. This is becoming a trend.
Charlie: Yeah, no.
Charlie: Rob was pretty adamant about the 9:30. By the way, I've been here since 8:30, you know?
Glenn: Okay, why'd you do that?
Charlie: Well, I dropped my kid off at school.
Charlie: And that was- that whole thing was done by 8:15 and it's here.
Glenn: And then you just flew here.
Charlie: And now, I'm here. He goes to school not so far from this office.
Glenn: Oh, boy, yeah.
Charlie: So-so I figured I'd come in, get a little work done and-
Glenn: Sure and get some coffee in you.
Charlie: Get some coffee in me. Yeah.
Glenn: Yeah. Are you on your first or your second cup of coffee?
Charlie: Oh God, no, no. I've had a thermos of coffee.
Glenn: Oh, my God, Jesus.
Charlie: And then I was like, I get some more coffee.
Glenn: I can't- I can't do that.
Glenn: I can't do that anymore, man. I've cut way back on my coffee.
Charlie: Uh, anyway, Rob's late.
Glenn: Now, before, uh, before we started rolling on this thing
Charlie: Nah, nah, no, no. Yeah, yeah yeah yeah, here we go.
Rob: Oh, no.
Charlie: It's 9:30.
Rob: What time is it? Look at your clock.
Rob: And guess what? I was here and nobody told me that the garage, I have to go to the lower garage, not the upper garage.
Glenn: Oh, so it was a garage error.
Charlie: Well-- [chuckles]
Rob: It was a garage error, I was on time.
Glenn: [chuckles] Okay.
Charlie: Well, no, see on time is when you don't know which garage it is, you get there a little bit early so just in case there's--
Rob: I did know which garage it was.
Glenn: To make sure that you have time to make the mistake of going to the wrong garage.
Charlie: You knew which garage it was and you still made a garage error?
Rob: I did. I was told it was the upper garage and it wasn't.
Glenn: Oh, you were told it was the upper garage.
Charlie: You were lied to about garage placement.
Glenn: Oh, okay.
Rob: So there's an upper garage, there's a lower garage.
Charlie: They have us on the basement.
Glenn: Who are we yelling at? Who are we yelling at?
Rob: It's already been done.
Charlie: The gang goes- the gang goes jihad? The gang goes Jihad.
Rob: We went Jihad about 15 years ago.
Rob: Yeah, sure did.
Glenn: You know, one of the things I noticed in the episode as I was watching I was like, oh yeah, yeah. George Bush was the president.
Glenn: Yes, we talked about that.
Charlie: We do?
Glenn: We've been through three pres-
Glenn: -four presidents.
Rob: Yeah, four presidents.
Glenn: Oh, my God. That's too-- We've been on for too long, guys. We gotta stop. What are we doing?
Charlie: I-I saw an episode--
Rob: We've been through five presidential terms.
Rob: Because, Barack Obama, of course, was elected twice.
Glenn: Two terms.
Rob: So, theoretically it could have been-
Glenn: Five terms.
Rob: could have been five presidents. [chuckles]
Glenn: Well, so did we started, right, so we started during Bush's second term.
Rob: And then Obama won twice.
Glenn: Yeah, yeah.
Glenn: Yeah, oh man. Wow. Okay, all right.
Charlie: Yeah, we've been on a long time.
Glenn: We sure did.
Rob: I love this episode.
Glenn: You do?
Charlie: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rob: I think it held up.
Charlie: I do too.
Rob: I think it holds up.
Charlie: I think it was pretty funny. Pretty great.
Glenn: It's all right. Yeah, I thought it was all right.
Charlie: Yeah, no, it's great.
Rob: There's a lot of yelling.
Glenn: Is there a lot of--
Glenn: There is a lot of yelling in this one, yeah.
Rob: And I remember hearing a lot of people say like, wow, that show's just people yelling at each other and they're right.
Glenn: Yeah, they're right.
Rob: I think we were yelling funny things at each other in this one.
Glenn: Well, yeah, I mean, I think the people who like our show like how we yell at each other. It's-it's, uh, it's fun, I guess.
Charlie: I was thinking about that bit where we come out of the back door and he's put a fence up, the Josh Sandberg.
Glenn: Ah, so much yelling in that.
Charlie: Who played that, but it's hilarious. But- and I was trying to remember-
Charlie: -'cause I can't remember anything. Now, had we scripted that we freak out, or did we just in the thing we're like, there's a fence and that's the joke.
Glenn: Yes, I don't think we scripted that we- that we freaked out to the degree that we were freaking out.
Charlie: Well, yeah, I mean, obviously we pushed it, but like.
Glenn: We're always gonna push things.
Charlie: But I'm like, that's such a great bit that we go out there and there's a fence, but then beyond that we-
Glenn: We panic.
Charlie: We panic.
Glenn: Yeah. We feel claustrophobic and we panic.
Rob: I would like to go back to the script 'cause I think that the joke was just that we walk out, we see that there's a fence-
Rob: -blocking us in and that's the end of the scene.
Glenn: I think you're right.
Charlie: Yeah, probably.
Glenn: There was a fence and we were like, he put up a fence.
Glenn: He put up a fence and yeah.
Rob: We're down- we're downtown, we went through all this work. We put the fence up, let's do something with it.
Glenn: Let's yell. Let's-lets yell about it.
Charlie: Let's scream.
Glenn: I mean, let's scream and yell about it.
Glenn: Well, I will say it is, it was one of our things from the very beginning of the show that we thought could set us apart from other shows was that it was never my line, your line, your line, my line, my line, your line, my line, your line. It was always like my line, oh, you wanna talk? And then if you-- 'Cause like the thing is, is like in a real conversation, the second you have the thing that you wanna say, there's a very good chance you're gonna cut me off. You know what I mean?
Rob: Oh, yeah.
Glenn: You just did it, yeah.
Rob: You got to jump in there.
Glenn: You gotta get in there. Yeah, we're always talking about as actors like sometimes we talk over each other too much and you're like, I have a funny line. I'd really like to get it out. I'm looking for a space to get it in and I can't get it in 'cause everyone's talking over each other.
Charlie: You know, there's another thing I noticed that we did in that episode, which we've talked about that we did in the bar where we had music playing the bar. When you go into my apartment with Frank and I, and we're cooking up the-the-the grilled Charlie or whatever it is.
Charlie: We have just like a cartoon playing in the background. You don't see it and I like that. It like creates some atmosphere. I think it's something we stopped doing.
Glenn: Yeah, it was like, we liked the idea of saying that this 30-year-old man, Charlie Kelly, is constantly watching cartoons in his apartment like a little child.
Rob: That scene is so funny.
Charlie: It is funny.
Glenn: It's so funny.
Charlie: It is really funny.
Rob: It's so funny, it's the idea of a grilled Charlie. It just suggests like history that you have like a sandwich that you make. It's a ridiculous thing.
Rob: The way you're dressed is funny and Ann Archer is so amazing.
Glenn: Yeah, she's very funny in that scene.
Charlie: You know, it's so funny. You know, I think we've mentioned too where we just absorbed each other's mannerisms and stuff. I do something in that where I have my hands kind of back on my hips.
Charlie: And I was like, oh, that's the posture that you do.
Glenn: That's a Rob thing, yeah.
Charlie: When you're hitting on the woman at the funeral in season five, which I always love. I love you do that. I was like, oh that's a thing.
Rob: I probably stole it from you.
Glenn: No, no, no, no, Rob, you did it in the whole movie.
Charlie: In the whole movie?
Glenn: Yeah. Yeah, that's been a thing- that's been a thing of yours for a very long time. The hands on the hips and like thrusting, like in a very awkward sort of stance, Like an awkward power stance.
Rob: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a power-ground move.
Charlie: Drifting off you guys, I guess.
Charlie: I don't know. Osmosis.
Rob: So funny. I thought that episode was- I thought that scene, in particular, was so funny. I thought Ann Archer was amazing. I thought the slap across your face was great.
Charlie: Yeah, that was great. I remember we were trying to get her to actually do it.
Glenn: Oh, to actually slap you and she wasn't comfortable with that?
Charlie: I can't remember.
Rob: I don't remember that.
Charlie: She did get me once.
Glenn: Yeah, but I don't think that's the one we used.
Charlie: No, that's not the one we used.
Glenn: Maybe it just wasn't the best take.
Glenn: Yeah. Well, something else that's interesting about season two was, and I don't remember, I mean, when we were writing season two, somewhere along the way we decided to serialize the show. Not that we were necessarily committing to it being a serialized show every year, but, uh, we, you know, there's a- there's a continuity there.
Charlie: Yeah, that episode ends sort of open-ended.
Charlie: Uh, which is something that we didn't really do again, until this year. We did like little bits of it here and there but, uh.
Rob: Yeah, well, I think we were well, we were trying to explain Frank-
Charlie: Oh yes.
Rob: -becoming a part of the gang.
Glenn: Oh, that's why we did it.
Glenn: That's why we did it. We wanted to slowly integrate him into the gang. And so things--
Charlie: Find the bar.
Glenn: Yeah, that's right.
Rob: How about this? Do you remember- do you remember us having a conversation? The three of us as we were writing the episode and 'cause we would call the episodes, The Gang Finds A Dead Guy, or the gang does this, the gang does that. And then if you recall from the conversation that the characters are having in the cold open, we're referring to ourselves as the gang.
Glenn: Oh, yeah.
Rob: And then I remember writing it and us going, wait, should we as the characters know that we're the gang-
Rob: -or should it just be a show thing? So we actually write that. We wrote that in to the scene where you're saying you're not a part of the gang.
Rob: And then Frank is saying, let-let your sister become a part of the gang. And Charlie and I are going, what are you talking about?
Glenn: What gang? What gang? You're talking in my head.
Rob: So, that was like a compromise, I think that we- that we made.
Charlie: Oh, really?
Rob: That we made.
Charlie: I prefer it-it's a good bit.
Glenn: It is a good bit, but it's an example of us very early on, getting just a little bit meta.
Glenn: You know what I mean? But I think- I think we always had that tendency.
Charlie: Um, and then what else about this episode?
Rob: I thought the story came together really well.
Rob: I liked that it, uh, it looked and it seemed like it was a big effect that we did at the very end.
Glenn: Oh, you know, well--
Rob: Like the explosion.
Charlie: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rob: It so wasn't though.
Charlie: It was really good.
Rob: It wasn't? And like you see.
Glenn: There's somebody like lobbing debris at us, right?
Rob: Yeah, that's a little, yes. But the reverse shot of that--
Charlie: You have some serious flame bars on that building. That's pretty good.
Rob: Nowadays we would do that all CG 'cause it's safer, I guess, and cheaper. That was real fire.
Glenn: Yeah, that was real fire.
Charlie: No, we wouldn't do CG fire. We did real fire this year.
Rob: Yeah, but like one little flame bar, but then we'll enhance that with the CG.
Charlie: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Glenn: Yeah, you enhance it in post. Yeah, you double it, triple it in post, or whatever. But, um, yeah. I don't know if people know what flame bars are. Like so in that scene, when you see the building on fire.
Charlie: Flame bar, there you go. You get it, it's a bar of flames.
Glenn: Yeah, sorry. Fine, fine, we won't talk about it.
Glenn: Now guys, this is the first episode. where the name of the episode comes first. We didn't do that before. Before, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia would come up right after the cold open. And then we would do the title after that. Now, whose idea was it to start putting the title of the show first? Do you guys remember? I don't.
Charlie: Sure don't.
Glenn: Yeah, it makes sense though, because we would often- we would often do some very, very on the nose ending to a cold open and then boom, the punchline to the joke would be the title of the episode so it made sense to do that next. But you guys don't remember whose idea that was or how that came about?
Rob: No, I just remember trying a bunch of-
Glenn: Okay, great.
Rob: [laughs] -a bunch of different things [laughs] in editing. Uh, so I-I do know, I do know that this is probably the- one of the first or earliest times where we started setting up the char- the fact that the characters are somewhat cartoonish insofar as they could get hit. I remember having long conversations about this. The previous episode, we got hit by a car, right?
Rob: Or a couple of characters got like mowed down by a car.
Rob: And then we're like, What are we gonna have them in casts for? Like how-how long, uh, from that episode is the next episode taking place?
Rob: Is it a day? Is it a week? Is it a month? We got to a point where it didn't matter anymore, but now- but in this episode, we had to establish Frank as being a-
Rob: -part of the bar. So-so we just had them cutting their casts. Our-our compromise was, no, they'll be fine. We'll just have them cut their casts off in the first scene. And then I think we have Frank wearing a boot?
Glenn: Is it a boot?
Rob: And that's it. That's all that's mentioned.
Charlie: Yeah, but-but the boot is great. [crosstalk]
Rob: We had to do- add so much to that episode. Yeah.
Glenn: If we weren't establishing Frank as a character and slowly integrating him into the bar, we would've just showed up in the next episode with nothing.
Glenn: Yeah. What are you thinking about Rob? Your eyes just went up to the ceiling.
Charlie: Yeah. You drifted up to the-
Glenn: You drifted- you were looking up to the ceiling, which always tells me that you're-you're-you're, you know, you're thinking about something.
Charlie: You had a joyful memory about something.
Rob: I-I was just thinking about how much fun, uh, shooting that episode was. I remember being outside.
Rob: We didn't do a lot of night work in season one, did we? I can't even remember. But,-
Rob: I remember like feeling like we were finding our stride and it wasn't as much like fighting. I remember the first season, not-not fighting, but like we were creatively collaborating and trying to find the show.
Rob: So the first season was really tough and I feel like the second season was- got a lot easier. And so like at night when we were outside shooting that scene where we were throwing the toilet paper-
Rob: I- I just remember that being really fun.
Glenn: Yeah, it was really fun. Well, it was also- it's-it's also, Yeah, it was like-- I- during the- those- during those days, I don't know if we- I don't think we did it that night. Or maybe we did. I don't know. We used to- we used to, you know, start nip it at some alcohol and we were shooting night scnees.
Charlie: Yeah, I think a night shoot's a lot of fun if you're not going- if you're not seeing the sunrise. It starts getting unfun-
Glenn: Oh yeah.
Charlie: -once you get past midnight. But if, you know, once it gets dark, it's like, uh-
Rob: Especially if you're in your mid to late 20s.
Glenn: Have you guys ever, um, toilet-papered somebody?
Charlie: Like their house?
Glenn: Yeah, or ever been toilet-papered?
Charlie: Trees for sure.
Rob: Yeah. Trees.
Charlie: I mean-
Rob: I don't know about houses. Yeah, tree-trees
Glenn: It's tough to get it over a house.
Charlie: The day before Halloween used to be like-
Charlie: -a go destroy your neighborhood day. [laughs]
Charlie: Did you guys have that?
Rob: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Charlie: It was like, "All right, we're about to, um, the kids are gonna get some candy, but before that happens, let's make-
Glenn: Let's destroy our neighborhood.
Charlie: Let's make them feel as those societies holding on by a tenuous thread here. We use to-
Glenn: We used to do a fun trick where we'd pull stop signs out.
Charlie: Oh, good.
Glenn: That's good, right?
Charlie: That is good.
Glenn: Yeah, that was a good trick. Fun trick. Uh, boy--
Charlie: There was-
Glenn: I know just the-the kind of thing I think about now and I'm like, what in the hell?
Charlie: I can remember one specific Halloween where there was word that one of the kids in the neighborhood was going around with bags of shit and throwing them at you.
[laughter] So-so we were out causing trouble. But being like, "Man, I hope I don't run into that dude. [laughs]
Glenn: The bags of shit guy?
Charlie: Yeah. And the- and throwing bags of poop comes back in the- in this episode.
Glenn: We used to also do these- this thing where we would, uh, we would drive by a mailbox and somebody would hang out the passenger side with a baseball bat and just smash mailboxes.
Charlie: What if everyone's ever like-
Charlie: -taking that swing and then their arms just flew off like the mailbox.
Glenn: Right, right, right.
Charlie: Like the mailbox, they're like-
Glenn: The m- the mailbox won.
Charlie: Yeah, like some guys like, "Guess what motherfucker, I'm gonna reinforce this mailbox." [laughs] You know?
Glenn: Yeah. Right, right. I'm sure it has [crosstalk]
Charlie: It takes the kids' arms out,
Rob: Or put some type of explosive in there so that [crosstalk]
Charlie: That'll do it.
Glenn: Oh, wow. That'll be exciting.
Charlie: That'll do it, take the whole car out.
Glenn: We accidentally, me and some friends, uh, decided to light a fire in somebody's front lawn and ended up lighting their entire front lawn.
Charlie: Hilarious. Hilarious.
Rob: In fucking Alabama. In Alabama?
Glenn: Well, you know, it's when you--
Rob: Okay. Let's-let's dig into that a little bit, shall we?
Charlie: Yeah, let's, let's avoid that one actually.
Glenn: You're just trying to have fun, you know what I mean? You're just- you just gonna have fun.
Charlie: Long history of that kind of fun in Alabama. Yeah.
Glenn: No, no, no. Hang on a second. There was nothing like that. It was we were-- [laughs]
Rob: Oh, what were you burning?
Charlie: You just-- [crosstalk]
Rob: What were you burning?
Glenn: We would do anything. Anything we could get our hands on.
Rob: Oh, sure, okay.
Charlie: Not people.
Glenn: Wow. Sure. Okay. Two pi- two pieces of wood.
Rob: I know the two pieces of wood is what we were thinking.
Glenn: That's what you guys were thinking. Oh, that's interesting. That's an interesting stereotype. You guys wanna talk about, Um, [laughs] how, uh, you're stereotyping Alabama. You guys wanna talk about that for the- our fans in Alabama?
Rob: Well, you were telling the story about how you were burning things on people's lawns in Alabama. [crosstalk]
Glenn: No, no, no. I didn't say, burning things on people's lawn, I said burning their lawn. [laughs] I said burning their lawn. I said burning their lawn.
Rob: Wasn't it?
Charlie: Hey man, I just burned their lawn. Okay?
Glenn: Yeah. Yeah. It was a white- a white people's house by the way. Okay, in case you're wondering.
Rob: I got a question for you.
Rob: By this point, were we still shoot- we were still shooting in the Barclay Hotel, right?
Rob: For Charlie's--
Glenn: I think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rob: So have we talked about the Barley Hotel?
Rob: Okay. So the Barclay Hotel is this- is this downtown hotel, which probably when it was built in 1925 was the cat's meow. Right? Like, that's the place where everybody wanted to stay, The movie stars and whatnot. This is where all the hip cats--
Charlie: I'm irritated by the fact that you said the cat's meow.
Glenn: I like it.
Charlie: It just- it just-
Rob: I like it. All the hip cats.
Rob: All the all hip cats-
Charlie: Yeah. It didn't feel right.
Rob: -wanted to- wanted to get down at the- at the Barclay Hotel.
Glenn: Yeah. Yeah.
Rob: And then sometime probably in the mid-
Glenn: In their zoo suits.
Rob: -mid-mid 60s to 70s,-
Rob: -that turned into a-- Well, you can live here if you want. I'm-I'm guessing it was around that era.
Charlie: I actually believe it was Charlie Parker, famous Jazz Saxophonist. I-I think that was his spot.
Glenn: Oh, really?
Rob: That was where- that was where he was?
Charlie: Yeah, yeah. He would stay there when he was in town.
Rob: Now he was also famous for--
Glenn: I don't think he--
Rob: -I believe doing excessive-excessive amounts of drugs, right?
Charlie: I don't know that could-- [crosstalk]
Rob: Well, I'm just-- [crosstalk]
Glenn: I don't know that about Charlie Parker.
Rob: Maybe I'm stereotyping jazz musicians.
Charlie: You could be stereotyping again.
Rob: Okay. Fair enough. Now we're getting to- now we're digging deep. We're digging deep.
Glenn: You might be thinking to the guy- who's the guy that Ethan Hawk played in that movie?
Charlie: Miles Davis. [laughs]
Glenn: Come on, man.
Charlie: He was into the heroin for sure.
Glenn: Was he?
Rob: Miles, yeah.
Charlie: Miles, big time.
Glenn: Yeah. Oh, okay.
Rob: Well anyway, um, the Barclay Hotel, uh, eventually became the kind of place where you could live and or just buy, uh, a few nights or buy a few hours.
Rob: I believe it still exists, uh, down there. It's the kind of place-- Is that where they found, uh, a body in the water well, in the- in the water tank? That's a different one?
Charlie: No. That's a different hotel.
Meg: It's the [unintelligible 00:16:38]
Rob: But-but it's- it's yeah-
Glenn: Excuse me, they found a body in the water.
Charlie: You don't know about this?
Rob: Yeah, in the drinking- in the drinking water.
Charlie: Oh, this is spooky shit. So they have like images of this woman going up to the seventh floor and she's acting very strange down to the first, up to the seventh.
Charlie: Down to the first, and then- and then that night they find her body in the drinking water.
Rob: Well, no, sorry. It's so much more sinister.
Charlie: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's more--
Rob: People are- one, it starts before that where people are like, "Why does this water taste weird?"
Glenn: Oh God, they were drinking her.
Rob: It smells bad and it tastes weird. And it's like a different color.
Rob: And then they went up and they were like-
Glenn: Wait a minute, when you say the drinking water, you're implying that that was not also the shower water and the bath water.
Rob: Yes. All of that water. All of the same-same water.
Charlie: Any tap water in one of these CD hotels is-
Glenn: Okay. Yeah.
Charlie: -already is suspect. But-
Glenn: I think that's right. Yeah.
Rob: And they went up there and they found a bo- a body in there-
Glenn: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Rob: -that had been decomposing for a few.
Charlie: The woman had been going up-up, down and up and-and-- [crosstalk]
Rob: And then they have all the security footage of like weird shit.
Charlie: It's very creepy.
Glenn: Well, wait a minute. What is I-I can't- I'm trying to follow-
Charlie: And then there are people that go and try to recreate the steps to see-see if she died. [crosstalk]
Glenn: Well, but-but are you saying she put herself in the-
Charlie: No, of course not.
Glenn: Why was she going up and down? Did-- Was she going up and down and so-so much that somebody got irritated and, and killed her and put her in the water tank?
Rob: It's a-- [crosstalk]
Charlie: No, she could have been trying to avoid someone.
Glenn: She's up and she's down, she's up and she's down, she's driving me crazy. And then they'd, somebody just like murdered her and was like, "I'm putting her in the water."
Charlie: Basically, and I think you just made yourself suspect. [laughs]
Glenn: Well, I'm-I'm just saying it would ang-
Charlie: Where were you?
Glenn: -it would anger me as well. In 1930-
Rob: There was also suggestion that it was, she was mentally ill and that maybe she committed suicide. Very-- It's all very strange.
Charlie: But then it was like, how do- you can't get in the tank anyway.
Glenn: How do you get into a fucking water tank?
Charlie: You don't. That's the thing.
Glenn: Well, no, no, but how- Like if I want- if I was like, "You know what, I'm gonna hop into my water tank at my house." How would I do that?
Rob: No, at the-
Rob: You don't have-- [crosstalk]
Glenn: Probably you could at the Cecil Hotel?
Charlie: No, one of those big ones on the roof that looks- that looks like a little-
Glenn: Oh, shit.
Charlie: Yeah, yeah. It's on the roof of the thing. It looks like a little house.
Glenn: It's like the-- Yeah, oh, yeah. Oh, okay. All right.
Charlie: It's great for stashing a body that you want people to then later drink. Um--
Glenn: Yeah. Um, that is the thing. There was a guy who was like, I want people to drink her. [laughs] Like, you know what I mean? Like, I don't wanna just kill her. I want people to drink her.
Rob: It was psycho.
Charlie: Yeah, it was that person. Anyways. Anyway.
Glenn: Yeah. We'll-we'll cut that--
Glenn: There had to be like a really ghoulish guy there. You were just like, "I know it was him. I just can't prove it. Look at him. Look at him. He wants me to drink people.
Charlie: You can't prove it.
Glenn: I can-- You can see it in his eyes. I can see it in his eyes. He wants me to drink people.
Charlie: I'm just saying. Drink some people. All right.
Rob: So but anyway, the Cecil Hotel and the Barclay Hotel are very similar.
Rob: Very similar. If you found out that you were drinking people at the Barclay Hotel, would you be surprised? No.
Glenn: Not in the slightest bit. Not in the slightest bit.
Rob: And that is where we found Charlie's apartment.
Charlie: Yeah, yeah.
Glenn: Made perfect sense for them.
Rob: And we- essentially, yes, we brought in- at the time, we brought in, um, furniture and things like that and-and set design. But I don't think we changed anything else. We didn't change the molding, the floor, the rug.
Charlie: Were the walls maybe even painted that color?
Glenn: Yes. They were.
Charlie: I think they were.
Glenn: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Charlie: Yeah, yeah, they were.
Rob: Cause we didn't have enough money to go-- [crosstalk]
Charlie: Strange blue.
Rob: Wow. So that room still exists. I wonder if it looks the same. Cause we started building the set, uh, a few years after that.
Charlie: It's probably like people are paying like $2,000 a night to stay there. [laughs]
Glenn: Oh, right.
Charlie: You know, like downtown is so different now. It's crazy.
Glenn: Oh, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Charlie: But not-not like that.
Charlie: Not that street, not that area.
Rob: Yeah, that's still tough over there.
Charlie: I think it's still, mm-hmm.
Glenn: Dan Attias directed all 10 episodes of this season. Uh, wonderful director mostly known drama, almost exclusively known for drama which we uh, preferred because we didn't like it when directors tried to make things funny, we found it made it less funny. So we just wanted somebody who could shoot a story really, really well and Dan Attias was extremely talented, and we needed somebody who could pull off essentially shooting all 10 scripts as if it was one big script because we only had Danny DeVito for 20 days.
Glenn: And then it ended up being what? 25 days?
Rob: No, I think he gave us way more than that.
Rob: I think yeah, I think- I think after the first like three days he was like, "Oh, these guys are fun and--
Glenn: And this is yeah, yeah. 'Cause originally I think he gave us-- he was like, "You got me for 20 days", and we're like, "Holy shit." We had to shoot all of Danny's-
Rob: I think- I think originally it was 15 days 'cause-
Charlie: It was 15-
Rob: -we were like three weeks, Jesus.
Charlie: -it was 15 days, yeah.
Glenn: Yeah we had to- so we had to front-load all of the Danny scenes we shot, uh, pretty much first with a couple of exceptions. I think we threw in some things for locations and stuff like that because do you guys remember, do you remember the first scene we shot of the whole season?
Charlie: Season 2?
Glenn: Season 2. Sorry, yes.
Glenn: If I am not mistaken, it was the scene uh, that we have that uh, where we're sitting in front of the lawyer played by Ravi Patel.
Rob: Oh, yeah-
Glenn: And yeah.
Rob: -that could be right.
Glenn: I believe that was the very first scene we shot of the season. And one of the things I know, this is just, it's pure vanity, I decided to get a haircut before we shot that season, and my guy just cut my hair way too short and I hated it so much. And I remember that-
Charlie: And then you're locked in.
Glenn: Yeah, I'm locked in. And I- and I just remember that being the very first scene and trying to figure out how to make my hair bigger.
Charlie: Your hair was small.
Glenn: It was so small.
Rob: I was wondering what you were wearing. I noticed I was like--
Charlie: I had a- I had a bracelet on in that scene.
Glenn: Did you have a bracelet on?
Charlie: Yeah, yeah. Just like a little, like a- like black string.
Rob: Thi-this was the first time I noticed too, and I don't know if I did this in the first episode of Season 2 but certainly in the second episode, I did notice this that I had on blue um, Dickies and black boots-
Charlie: Now that's pretty good.
Rob: -which I then proceeded to wear and continued to wear for the next 15 sea- 14 seasons.
Rob: So I think I-
Charlie: Are you gonna try to keep your-- I-- Like, I'm probably gonna keep my army jacket and-and uh, and sneakers that I've worn through the whole thing. I'm gonna try-
Glenn: What do you mean keep them?
Charlie: No. Well, they were mine when we started the show and-
Glenn: Oh, oh.
Rob: Oh yeah.
Rob: -and they'll be mine when we finish.
Rob: Yeah. Well, Dickies, I-I just actually, I brought a few pairs of Dickies back in today to give back to wardrobe 'cause I don't think I'll be wearing those consistently. But I mean, maybe one day they'll go up in the Smithsonian. What do you think Glenn?
Glenn: Oh, there's no doubt about it yeah.
Charlie: Yeah, no doubt about it.
Glenn: Everything about this show has been celebrated widely by uh, great institutions such as the Smithsonian so um, that would be consistent with that. Yeah, I think so. Absolutely, I think that's gonna happen. Um, let's talk about my buddy Ravi Patel.
Charlie: Yeah. Quite- I quite enjoyed him in that scene.
Glenn: He's great in the scene. He's great, I love that guy. Uh, he and I did a short film together after Season 1 of the show and that's how I got to know Ravi. And uh, then we cast him on the show 'cause he's great. Uh, and Ravi and I are still very good friends. Uh, I love that guy, I miss him. He moved to Nashville. Um, he's still in the biz, he just decided to get the hell out of Los Angeles, move to- move his family to Nashville. So I'm kind of missing that guy but, uh, yeah, Ravi was great in that. And uh, he also has-- I'm gonna do a plug, I'm gonna do a plug for his HBO show. He did a show, they only did four episodes--
Charlie: Sorry, really quick. Are they paying me anything?
Charlie: Okay, so Rob.
Charlie: Do you remember-
Glenn: I'm gonna do a plug for Ravi's show. I'm gonna do a plug for Ravi's show.
Charlie: Sorry, sorry I'm not- I'm not- I'm not getting anything out of it.
Glenn: Yeah, that's okay, you don't have to.
Glenn: It's called-
Charlie: Rob, do you remember-
Glenn: -Ravi Patel's Pursuit of Happiness and it's great.
Charlie: It's for Ravi. Ravi PAte-- Ravi's what is it, what is it called?
Glenn: I believe- I believe his name is pronounced Ravi.
Charlie: No, no, no, no the show.
Glenn: Ravi Patel's-
Charlie: Patel's Pursuit-
Glenn: -Pursuit of Happiness.
Charlie: Okay [laughs].
Rob: This is just like the show where everyone would talk over each other.
Charlie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I remember getting in an argument with Mr. Dan Attias about that Ann Archer scene where she comes in.
Charlie: Do you recall this?
Glenn: What were you arguing about? What was your argument?
Charlie: Well, you know the director traditionally directs the episode and then gets his cut of the episode and then-
Rob: Oh, yeah, in post.
Charlie: -and then the writers and producers come in in post-
Rob: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Charlie: -and we had quite an argument-
Rob: And I do remember that.
Charlie: -about that specific scene where he--
Glenn: In editing?
Charlie: Where we-we had cut it significantly down 'cause uh, we felt it just worked best in the form that you see it today.
Charlie: But uh, and Dan had felt as though we had really like butchered-
Rob: Butchered the scene, yeah.
Charlie: -butchered the scene.
Rob: And voiced it which was his-- is fair.
Charlie: And voiced it which was his right, but then-
Rob: And then we were like, "Great, thank you very much and we're gonna air it like this." And then he pushed back.
Glenn: Yeah, so for the-
Charlie: And then he pushed back on that and then-
Glenn: -for the folks at home uh, that maybe don't know this um, you know, in-in-in films, uh, the director has uh you know, much more, um, agency.
Charlie: The final say. Except for-- Well, he's got final cut or she.
Glenn: Well some-some-some directors get final cut, but usually, there's big- there's a big P producer that comes in and he gets final cut or she.
Charlie: No, no. Usually, it's the studio or-or-or you know not like-
Charlie: -it's you know, it's Walt Disney or whatever-
Charlie: -it is.
Glenn: Right, they get the final cut. But-but the director is-is the big man on campus or woman.
Charlie: Or they or them.
Glenn: Oh, my God. On a film, Jesus Christ. Uh, human, the big human on campus-
Glenn: -is the director.
Charlie: Well, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. They may not- they may not identify as humans. It's the big entity.
Rob: I-- Maybe this is a boring part of the podcast, or maybe this is something people find interesting, but even though it seems like it's a lot of fun to make the show and it is, and it seems like we're laughing and having a good time all the time, we're constantly fighting with each other, like constantly. But-but I use the word fighting, I mean disagreeing with each other. We're not--
Rob: Once we've realized that our egos are getting involved which they have, which they do from time to time, then we have to check that but it is a constant negotiation.
Glenn: Yeah, that's true.
Charlie: It's negotiating with each other. It's-- I wouldn't say that it's fighting 'cause that-that-that implies that we're just having major disagreements of personality and that's never happening. That's maybe if it's happening once a season we're having a sit- the three of us sit down and say, "Hey, I have an issue with this, that, or the other thing." And it usually happens in the writing process and it usually you know, gets settled in an hour discussion, and then we move on. But on set it's-it's all a creative discussion.
Charlie: You know?
Rob: Totally. Well, nobody's ever yelling at each other, but I guess the point is that we're always navigating strong opinions.
Rob: And-and we're constantly compromising and working with-with one another because we respect each other, but that doesn't mean we roll over, right? So everybody feels strongly about-- But to your point that you just- you were just saying Charlie, there's usually at least one big blow up every year that we have to like-like go our separate ways like for a day or so and then come back and then have a conversation or like I gotta shoot you guys like a text and be like, "I'm sorry, I fucked up." You know like, but like, but this year I don't think we've had that.
Rob: Not yet.
Charlie: No, we did.
Rob: We did?
Charlie: We did, we did. We were-- it was something early in the writing where we sat down and we hashed out, it was sort of the same frustration we usually get in the writing process.
Rob: Oh, and then we were saying we should do this on the podcast. What was that?
Charlie: It was- it was, the gist of it was, you were getting frustrated.
Rob: Me Rob?
Charlie: Yeah, you Rob were getting frustrated.
Rob: That tracks, that tracks.
Glenn: Yeah, yeah, that tracks definitely.
Charlie: Because you-you had a story thing you liked, and Glenn and I were-
Glenn: Oh, I know what it was.
Charlie: Go ahead.
Glenn: Sorry do you- did you-
Rob: Oh, God oh, ooh-
Glenn: I didn't wanna interrupt you.
Rob: -you just cut him off.
Charlie: No I-- No, no, no. I--
Rob: You just-- He just cut you off, dude.
Rob: Do you see that he just cut you off [crosstalk].
Glenn: He's deflecting.
Charlie: Don't let him deflect.
Rob: Charlie was in the middle of something and you just jumped right on top of it.
Glenn: We were mad at him, we were mad at him. Don't deflect.
Rob: Doesn't he always do this?
Charlie: No, no, but it was- it was that we couldn't get- we couldn't get-- You wanted to just get something done. It was frustrating for you to sort of have to slow down because we were like, "No, this isn't good enough." And it was exhausting 'cause you were like, in my mind I know it works.
Glenn: I remember what it was.
Charlie: I do too and it was in the-
Glenn: Oh good. Oh okay, sorry.
Charlie: -in the- in the cas- the castle.
Glenn: Yes. Okay. So we had a- we have a sequence in a castle.
Rob: Don't give it away.
Glenn: Okay, yeah.
Charlie: Don't give it away.
Glenn: Well, well, okay, all right, all right.
Rob: Without the specifics.
Glenn: We have a sequence in a castle that turns bad, and uh, Rob had a very specific idea of how that should be executed. And to be fair to him, that was the- that was the idea that we, I think, had in the break, right?
Glenn: So that was in the break, that was in the story break uh, that came out of the writer's room and the outline and all that and, um, it was executed that way. And when Charlie and I read it we just- we were like it felt to- it felt to us as though it was derivative, right, or something that we'd done. It was something that we'd-
Glenn: -seen before or something we'd done before in our- in our minds. And in your minds it was like, no, this is different enough or it's different maybe totally, right. You can- you can attest to your own point of view on this. But you were like, "I know this works. Why are we creating extra work for ourselves? Why are we fixing something that I know works?"
Charlie: No, but the argument came out of you wanting to say, "All right, fine, then you guys just do it, I don't." And we- and us saying, "No, no, no, I know it's exhausting but we don't want you to just say, all right fuck it, you guys do it."
Charlie: We want to have the argument because we know we'll get to the best place. And the-the justifiable frustration of 15 years of that, you know, of that is exhausting but that's sort of a recurring theme which is that to pull- to pull this off the way that we do, it's an- it's an exhausting process.
Glenn: Yeah, there's a lot of push and pull and we're constantly trying to figure out how to streamline and take that stuff out to make the process easier so that we can have, theoretically, so that we can have more fun. Um, and we don't always totally disagree on where- on where that line is. Like I would say that Rob, you tend towards, let's just make things easier for ourselves. Not that you're not con-concerned about quality, you are, but one thing you've brought up before is that sometimes those big blowout arguments or those big fights, those things that like, like take a lot of energy and time to discuss will maybe, when all is said and done, make the show 1%, 2% better.
And in your mind, you're like, that's not worth it because I've got- I've got a life and I've got sanity and I'm- and I'm 44 and I've got my blood pressure to worry about, you know, like, you know, and that's fair. And sometimes-- And I tend to come down on the side of, you know, I'm-I'm- I would rather have those arguments and potentially make the show 10% better and then maybe be okay with it if it only makes it 2% better.
Rob: Yeah, where-where we're always negotiating or where I'm negotiating it in my mind is when I feel like we're making it 1 to 2% different.
Glenn: Yes, that is true.
Rob: Because better is in the eye of the subjective holder.
Glenn: Yes. Well, better is in the eye-
Rob: Of the two against one.
Glenn: -of the two against one.
Rob: That's what we've always agreed to so.
Charlie: We've always agreed to, and it is a fantastic process creatively. And I will say on things where I've not had it, I've sorely missed it.
Glenn: But yeah other than that, I don't think we had any.
Charlie: I feel like that argument was-
Glenn: We're also so used to it now that we probably don't even notice it, as many times as we have those things.
Charlie: That was the shape of argument that we had for like three, four years. But I don't remember older ones, what they were about. Do you guys?
Rob: Oh, God.
Glenn: Older argument, like big blow, like arguments about stuff?
Charlie: Yeah, I don't really remember any of them really sigh]. I don't feel like we had that many of them.
Glenn: We did.
Glenn: Oh, we've had so many, so many, so many.
Charlie: What about?
Rob: They were less of-- They-- We were-- We weren't as capable of communicating, I think, so we would just get pissed off and walk away, but I can't remember.
Glenn: When we were younger and more insecure and maybe felt that we had something to prove to the other person if they felt like, you know, there was a- it was almost like, I mean, almost like a this person thinks he's smarter than me. You know what I mean? And I have to prove that I'm just as smart and creative as the other person, you know what I mean? Almost like there was this, the thing of like, not competitive, but you know, when you dig your heels in on something because you feel like it's-it's-it's when your ego slips into it. And we've gotten much better about recognizing-
Glenn: -when I'm fighting for something that I want because my ego can't let it go versus I really genuinely think that creatively this is the best decision. We've gotten a lot better at-at figuring out when it's our egos, instead of the- when it's no a creative discussion anymore. It's-it's just a digging my heels in because my ego is hurt.
Glenn: And that that's something honestly, that's something that I think that has served me in my real life too, through doing that so many times and putting my self- putting-- Being in uncomfortable arguments with people that I don't, 'cause I don't like confrontation. But, uh, getting comfortable with being in those confrontations, um, has made me able to face that kind of stuff in my personal relationships too. It's been therapeutic for me.
Charlie: I don't feel- I-I don't recall ever feeling like that from either of you guys and always feeling like it was about a sense of what is the best version of this TV show. And digging in on that, but never, ever really feeling like it was like an ego thing, but always like strong opinions about like, well, what's gonna make this work or not work, which I think is great.
Glenn: Yeah, well, you know, different strokes for different-different interpretations for different.
Rob: I'll have to go through and make a list of all the things that we used to fight about. That'd be fun.
Glenn: Different interpretations for different beings.
Glenn: You know, doesn't have the same ring to it, does it?
Rob: Why does something have to be?
Glenn: Mm, right. That's through, uh, that's, uh, what's the word I'm looking for?
Charlie: I truly can't remember what any of the arguments were about. Can you actually remember those? I mean, I can remember this season 'cause it was only a couple months ago.
Glenn: It's usually about you not being able to remember stuff.
Glenn: Well, okay. Let's talk-- How about this? Let's talk about, um, this was the first time we ever sang a song.
Rob: Oh yeah.
Glenn: We came up with the idea of like, we thought it was very funny, the idea of, uh, you know?
Rob: Now that wasn't scripted, right? That was us like sitting there.
Charlie: No, that was not scripted.
Glenn: That was not scripted.
Rob: We're just sitting here at the bar waiting for Frank to come in. We should do something.
Glenn: Yes, and the thought was what's the most [giggle] nonchalant followup to having blown up a building next door?
Charlie: Yeah. That's a good bit.
Glenn: And possibly being, you know, 'cause you expect us to come into the next scene and be like, "What are we gonna do, guys? We gotta make sure that you know there's no fingerprints." We gotta make sure, you know, like how do we come of our asses here? We're gonna be in big trouble, but no, we're in the bar working out the harmonies to the extreme song More than Words.
Glenn: And thought that was very funny.
Charlie: It's a great cut. I'd forgotten it, watching it.
Glenn: Yeah, me too. Totally forgot about that.
Rob: I thought we sounded pretty good too.
Glenn: Yeah, we did sound pretty good. We sounded all right.
Rob: I left this episode.
Charlie: Not bad. Not bad.
Rob: If I'm thinking about the first episode where of season one, where my thought after watching it was, "Hmm, I wonder why people like the show or started to watch this show." I watched this episode and I was like, "I wonder why more people didn't love this show. Why weren't people watching this show 'cause it's good."
Glenn: I think, I do say, I've always said this. I really do think that the look of the show is a bit of a turnoff for people.
Rob: The name, the title.
Charlie: The title.
Rob: The title is tough.
Charlie: The title.
Glenn: The title is tough.
Glenn: But also like, I think our sense of humor is very specific and sometimes it takes people a second to go, oh, okay. Like I still think there are some people who just don't get that the joke, what the joke is. Like, I mean--
Glenn: I've often talked about how I had to watch The Kids in the Hall three or four times before I- before finally I was-- So I would watch that show and I'd be like, this is so stupid. This is so fucking dumb. I don't get it. You know, even as a kid, I was like, this is so juvenile and dumb. Like the jokes are just dumb. And then like the fourth or fifth time something clicked. I don't remember what sketch I was watching. Something clicked where I was like, "Oh, it's dumb on purpose. They're smart making a show about, they're making a show, doing sketches about dumb people." And then it became funny to me.
Charlie: A lot of my favorite things to watch, you know, movies, whatever are things that get better, much significantly better on your second or third watch.
Glenn: Right. People often, that was why The Big Lebowski wasn't a big hit right off the bat.
Charlie: Totally, that's a great example.
Glenn: Because some people had to see that movie like two or three times.
Charlie: The more you watch it, the more you get out of it.
Charlie: And what a, you know, what a terrible business model that is to like make something that you're like, well, the next time you watch this is gonna be better. But lots of very popular movies that I could never sit through again.
Glenn: Well also, but I--
Charlie: And all-all the great ones, in my opinion, like on your first viewing, you're like, huh, I just wanna watch it again.
Glenn: It's not the- It's not like anyone-- I don't think anyone consciously goes, nobody's gonna get this the first time around.
Charlie: No, no, of course, not. Of course not. Of course not.
Glenn: But the second time. You know what I mean? Nobody consciously.
Charlie: Yeah. yeah. No, you're just layering things in that are subtle and then--
Glenn: Right. And-and hopefully doing something too, but I mean, I think anytime so--
Charlie: And by the way, a lot of people probably watch those movies and totally get them the first time [chuckles].
Charlie: It's probably just a statement on me.
Glenn: I find it to be the same thing with music too, where I'll listen to an album from a band that I like and, you know, there'll be like one or two songs on there and I'm like, "Eh, I'm just not into that song." But I force myself to keep listening to it as I listen to the whole album through from beginning to end. And oftentimes those songs that were not very good to me at first become my favorite songs and the ones listen to the most because they-- I don't know what that is. It's like when something's really catchy right off at the offset, it's like it gets old faster, you know? But when something takes a little bit more like time and work to kind of sort of like suss out what makes it special, sometimes that has more staying power. I don't know, in my experience.
Rob: I also find if you use music as an example, like whenever you talk to those like musicians, whether they're like Kings of Leon or huge Imagine Dragons and I'll ask them like when like they're writing in their music, they don't think of themselves as big pop stars or big rock stars, nor do they think of themselves as like niche. They're just like, I'm making what I make. I don't know. And it just seems to like, and I feel like that's-- I feel like I don't think of ourselves as niche, even though we are, I'm just writing what I think is funny. So I think everybody is gonna think it's funny, but they don't.
Charlie: There is a truth to that in terms of you're making something that plays by its own set of rules and those rules are completely intangible and you're looking at it and you're either saying, ah, this isn't following the rules or this isn't adding up to, you know, what it's supposed to add up to, but there's no like pie chart of like, this is what an episode is. This is what a story is. It's just something like you've internalized, I guess, from watching other things. And it either feels like the thing or it doesn't. And when it doesn't, you can't really point a finger at anyone or anything, you're just killing yourself. You're like, "Ah, why doesn't this compute?"
Glenn: I mean, this is why I'm-I'm a big, like, I'm always, I-I overuse the word authentic because it's- it really is true for me that I don't like it when I feel like a musician or a show, or a movie is doing it for me. I want the musician, or the, uh, the band, or the, the show, I want it to be that they are doing something that they love, and they almost don't give a shit if anybody else likes it. I wanna feel like they could care fucking less if I like it.
Charlie: There's such a weird middle ground in there where it's like, you can-- you truly can make a movie or an album for no one, and then you'll listen to it and you'll be like, "Right, this is for no one."
Glenn: Well, no, I'm not. No, no, no, no, but I'm-- That's-that's, yes. And-And there-- and that does exist. I mean, you know, uh, certainly where somebody makes something that's purely for themselves and it's absolutely trash because it literally is only something that person could enjoy.
Glenn: But I-- But I think what I'm referring to is when you feel like a band, they just write the best, the coolest shit that they can come up with that like that really means something to them, and is like, fucking awesome for them. And, you know, then can't understand why nobody else likes it, and then there's a few niche people who do. Or in the example of Imagine Dragons or Kings of Leon, where they're just writing song--
They're like, I don't know. This is like, this-- We think this fucking kicks ass. And then they put it out into the world and the world agrees. They're like, "This does kick ass. This is great." And that's where you-you-you got extraordinarily lucky because you've done something authentic to yourself, and then it's, uh, it's ironically something that makes you, uh, very successful.
And I mean, I-I-- In our case, we made a show, we were always making a show that well, I was just trying to do something that I thought was funny. That I thought was funny and I thought-- I enjoyed making you guys laugh and that's all. And I was like, I'm gonna let that just be the barometer, right? If it's making us laugh, fuck it, that's what we'll do. You know what I mean? And we did that from the beginning and I think most of it was because we were, a-at least for me, I was fairly convinced that-that, uh, it probably wasn't gonna catch on and that it wasn't gonna work. So I was like, so I wanna go out doing something that I'm proud of and then it did work, sort of.
Glenn: Sort of.
Charlie: Sort of.
Glenn: Sort of worked.
Rob: We'll guys, this has been fun.
Glenn: It's been fun, but it hasn't been funny. [chuckles]
Charlie: Um, maybe it doesn't always need to be funny.
Glenn: I was laughing, were you laughing?
Rob: I was laughing earlier.
Charlie: Here's what we're gonna do now. Nw, we're gonna go and we're gonna sit, and we're gonna look at an episode, and we're gonna the sit the three of us, and we're gonna look at an episode. And-
Glenn: When you say, "Look at an episode" you-- We're gonna edit?
Charlie: We're gonna edit.
Glenn: We gonna get in the editing room. This is our first day in the editing room of season 15.
Glenn: Um, we've watched a little bit.
Rob: We've already given-- Charlie and I have given notes on a few cuts.
Glenn: They didn't ask me. They didn't ask me to come and do that.
Rob: No, it's always good to have fresh eyes.
Charlie: Yeah, always good to keep fresh eyes.
Glenn: Yeah, okay, sure. I'll-- Let's go with that.
Charlie: We're gonna--
Glenn: Let's go with that.
Charlie: Well, maybe even lock one today.
Rob: We'll see, I don't know, maybe.
Charlie: Yeah, like, uh-
Rob: You know, but I don't put any pressure on--
Charlie: -put one to bed here, you know.
Glenn: Well, we just put everybody else to bed-
Glenn: -so why don't we put one of the [inaudible 00:42:53].
Charlie: All right, Glenn.
Charlie: All right.
Rob: All right, Glenn.
[00:43:07] [END OF AUDIO]