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Episode #31

Mac is a Serial Killer

Hey Rob, calm down.

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31. Mac is a Serial Killer

On the pod, the guys revisit Mac is a Serial Killer from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia Season 3, Episode 10.

Glenn Howerton: And we're back. We're back, everybody is The Always Sunny in Philadelphia podcast. It's just Glenn and Charlie. Charlie, how are you doing, bud?

Charlie Day: I-I'm doing pretty good, Glenn. I'm doing pretty good. We're-we're not together in the studio and unfortunately, we can't be together in the studio due to a major rise in pinworm outbreak, thanks to Rob McElhenney.


Uh, he's at home. He's getting cleaned up and hosed down. Uh, but-- [crosstalk]

Glenn: He's got worms [crosstalk] coming outta every inside outside. There's worms everywhere, all over his house. It's--

Charlie: Unfortunately, we can't be around him. Um, but, uh, that's only, uh, the good news is that it, which should be completely cleared out of his system within a good eight to 10 weeks. So, uh, you know, you can only anticipate maybe 10, 15 of these Zooms to be safe.


And then hopefully, uh, the-the worms have eaten the lice and then we can attack the worms and, uh, and cleared all up.

Glenn: We need- we need like, uh, worms that kill other worms, you know what I mean? Like you just send in like an army of worms to take out the, uh, the other worms, you know. Is that a thing?

Charlie: They, yeah, they- they got [unintelligible 00:01:12] worms,

Megan Ganz: But what if they turn into ghost worms and ghost lice and then we gotta deal with all of those things?

Glenn: Oh my God. Think of all the go- all the bugs that we've killed and all the ghosts of bugs that are out there, you know. If-- and if you were the type of person who could see, you know, that type of thing, like the, like what is that? Like a, not a paranormal, but like a psychic I guess, boy, just--

Charlie: I thought about that the other day 'cause you know, we-we had the-the argument about ghosts and why you don't see a worm- a ghost of a worm. And then, you know, as my mind tends to do, then later I have a counterargument with myself. Um, and, uh, [laughs] and started questioning, well, maybe ghost of worms, see ghost worms. And uh, you know, and humans only see, but if you're a worm, you might see the ghost of the worm, you know.

Glenn: Oh.

Charlie: So it could be-

Megan: Smart.

Charlie: -you know, you're tapped into, you know, whatever you're tapped in. 'Cause I-- the worm doesn't even see us, do they? I don't know what a worm sees. Worm's blind, I think. I think worm's blind. Anyways, we're back on The Sunny podcast-


-and talking about worms again.

[elegant music]

Glenn: Okay. Uh, Mac Is a Serial Killer. Um, I loved this episode.

Charlie: [laughs]. I did too. I did too. Yeah.

Glenn: I Loved it. I've always loved it and I loved it now.

Charlie: I wanna say something on the record, like, I've enjoyed all these episodes. I know sometimes maybe the fans hear us being analytical and they're- they might mistake that for, uh, a dislike of the episode. I think that's us just trying to understand where we were, how we got to where we got to, and, um, you know, where we are today. So we can make the episode as-as best as we can. But, um, the more- as they go along, I like the more and more the character dynamics. I mean, we really, and we're building out the world in this one in a great way with the-with the moms and the-- and Mac's dad and- and Cricket really being-- [crosstalk]

Megan: And Charlie as the lawyer.

Charlie: This is the first time we did the lawyer gag, I think.

Megan: So great.

Charlie: And it's very funny.

Glenn: [laughs]. It's great. Yeah. No, it's- it's terrific. And I- and I-I also love how you- you kind of slip into the, uh, you kind of slip into the whole Shelley "The Machine" Levene, uh, thing. Again, whenever you put on the short sleeve button-down shirt.


Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: And the-and the tie, you be- you sort of become Jack Lemmon in Glengarry Glenn Ross to do [crosstalk]

Charlie: Yeah. He likes to play adult, uh.

Glenn: [laughs]. Right, Right.


Charlie: Um, I mean, I-- What I love the, just the interview of Mac's Mom, like interrogating her. Oh, man, that's so good.

Glenn: Uh, yeah, no, I-I absolutely love this episode. I thought it was great. I love-- The lawyer stuff is so funny to me. Um, just you thinking that you've watched enough episodes of Law and Order that you think you understand- like you know the-the sort of the key phrases in terms and you feel like you could get in there and actually defend someone and, you know, with that knowledge and, uh, [laughs], it's, um, yeah, I don't- I don't know. It's just, it's so stupid, but it's-it's-it's so funny.

Charlie: It's a-- It's like a stick, but it's a fun stick. Uh--

Megan: My favorite is the scene where you're talking to Mac and you're like, "I gotta get in there and dun dun dun dun dun." And you just start doing the theme song.

Charlie: Yeah. Start singing the Law and Order theme song.

Megan: So funny.


Charlie: It's funny trying on his Drakkar Noir and then he senses it. He smells it.

Megan: Yeah. Did you guys ever- did you ever wear Drakkar-Drakkar Noir? Was that-- Did you have any good cologne from your youth that you used to spritz on?

Charlie: Oh well. Oh yeah, absolutely. I had- I had, um, I really liked that, uh, Calvin Klein Obsession.

Megan: Sure.

Glenn: Um.

Charlie: Sure. Yeah.

Glenn: Yeah. That was- that was my first cologne.

Charlie: No, I think I smelled like Right Guard [laughs] or something. Yeah.

Glenn: Yeah, Secret.

Charlie: I don't think I any, Yeah, [laughs]

Glenn: Just- just the Drakkar Noir reference is just so funny to me because it was, it's like a, it's a very specific thing, right? It's-it's to like the average person, it- it's like, it feels like a very expensive, very fancy cologne. And yet, you know, it's like in every department store and it was like one of the most, you know, ubiquitous colognes out there. But, uh, but to characters, like, our characters were like, whoa, like Drakkar Noir is the shit.

Charlie: Well, there are-- There's certain things too that like catch on and become sort of just funny, like bo- like body acts or whatever, like things that are like targeted for men, [laughs] and taken very seriously, that seem very not serious and are fun to make fun of. Glenn, you as um, the, uh, to catch a predator guy?

Megan: [laughs]. Oh, so funny.

Glenn: Yeah, Chris--

Charlie: Not so young and attractive is she Mac?


But maybe my favorite-- Are you here to see a young, attractive woman, or Sandy, a young, attractive blonde, and then Dee comes out of the camera.

Glenn: You must be very disappointed.


Megan: I loved it, especially you had so many good, um, runs at Dee's expense this episode, the whole thing about like, he'd spend all day cutting you up. He'd never get the job done. He'd get the job done. Like no he's--

Charlie: Is this the- Is this the episode that we came up with calling Dee a bird?

Glenn: Well--

Charlie: 'Cause we call Larry a bird,

Glenn: We've talked about this a little bit. Um, we did call her Big Bird in season two, uh, when she's wearing the--

Charlie: Oh, when she- when she had on the basketball suit.

Glenn: Yeah. When she had the basketball suit on. Where- where, yeah, the pants suit. We, um, we referred to her as, uh, as Big Bird. And I think that was the first time we referred to her as a bird. And then I think this was the one that set it off where it was like, calling her a bird became like a thing. But yeah, I-I-I agree Meg. I-I-I think some of that-- I don't think, um, that stuff was really scripted. I remember on the day we-- when we were shooting that, um, we just kept building and building and building, and just like a take after take it was different every single time, and-and it's kind of amazing because--

Megan: How is this one person. How many people have I cut up? How many--

Glenn: How many people have I murdered? How could be-- Yeah. Like, but like I remember- I remember, uh-- I mean it's-it's-it's pretty great actually how it feels scripted in the sense that it's so tight. The back and forth is so tight, but I'm-I'm almost certain it was not, it was not scripted. Um, and I love how Kaitlin's jumping in there, it's so-- it's also so funny to me that she is so concerned with being- with fitting-- She's more con-- She would rather fit the profile, um, of a serial killer's victim than, uh, you know, not be considered a young attractive blonde.

Like, she would rather think of herself as someone who's in danger of being murdered by a serial killer than to have us think that she's not a young, attractive blonde. Like that is so- that's so fucking funny to me, man.

Charlie: Even you, just you and the bushes with a big puffy coat is funny. Just the fact that you had a- the puffiest coat. We never see you wear a coat like that before or after, but-


-you got it for that scene, which is great.

Glenn: Yeah, it's great.

Megan: That was a really funny back and forth with Pepper Jack, just how quickly he asks her about who she's with and how quickly he like assumes her so that by the time you get out of the bushes, she's already his best hoe. And, uh, he's not like, it's just such a funny back and forth.

Charlie: He was great and-and when we went back to him this season to have him back, it must have been so bizarre for him.

Glenn: Yeah, no, You're right. To-to come in and do one scene as a character on a show and then 14 years later be called back to play that same character. I mean, I remember he was- he was- it was so great to see him 'cause he was so excited to come back and he was, you know, uh, excited to step back into those shoes. And he-- and I, I remember I asked him, I was like, "Did you have to like, watch the episode like a few times to remember the mannerisms and the-the way that he spoke and all that kind of stuff." And he- he studied all that and, uh, yeah, it was just a pleasure having him back. Such a sweet dude.

Megan: Do you guys remember the origins of this episode? Did it come out of like a Law and Order thing like that you were, or--

Charlie: I don't remember, but this is one of the first episodes, and we don't do too many episodes like this, but there's a certain style of comedy, right? Which is mistaken information where one character thinks they're talking about one thing, the other character thinks the character is talking about something completely different. And the joke is basically coming from that, you know, it's almost like a sort of like a Neil Simon-esque technique or whatever. It feels not dated. Yeah. But it feels like more old school in a way, you know?

Glenn: Yeah. It's- it's very- it's very- very typical of a- of a farce, which, you know, we tend to be a little bit more satirical and less farcical but, um, yeah-

Charlie: Farcical, it is what it is, yeah.

Glenn: I'm - I-I think it's great when we slip into that. I-I-I think it's, um, you know, if- if done well, you know, it's like you make a choice like that you just kind of lean into it, and you don't question it too much and you just kind of go with it. Um, you know, character is talking at cross purposes. One person thinks that they're saying one thing and the other person thinks they're saying something totally different and, uh, I, you know, I kind of love that.

Even though and, you know, even though we've talked about like how we don't, uh-- Well, I guess Rob has talked about how he doesn't like it when we're spoofing, um, things. Um, we do spoof To Catch A Predator, which is an ancient show, um, now, um, but I just- I love it. I think this episode is very clever. Like, uh, we-we met- we pack a lot of shit into this ep- There's a lot packed into this episode. It's pretty jam-packed with, uh, with good stuff.

Charlie: I like how the scene is shot of you chasing after Mary Elizabeth, uh, with Kaitlin and if my memory serves me correctly, actually, Matt Shakman shot that scene. I think it was Jerry Levine's episode but I think because we were in Philly, and Jerry couldn't come to Philly, Matt picked up that.

Glenn: I think you may be-

Charlie: Now walk and talk on the streets. Yeah.

Glenn: I think you're right. Yeah. I think he shot the Philly stuff because we, uh, Jerry wasn't able to come to-to Philly for some reason.

Charlie: And that's one of the first times where we had- we had you actually like considering possibly killing someone.

Megan: [chuckles] That is so funny. [laughs]

Charlie: And like I remember them telling me like, "Wait, is this too far for the character," and nothing has seemed to be too far. Like the further we could get, we would just chase down those roads for everybody.

Glenn: Yeah, that's what we were learning, right? In this-in this season as- as we were- as we've talked about many times in the podcasts like how we were pushing things in this season to see how far we could go. Um, and, you know, this was one of those things where it was like, "Well, what if- what if he really does start fantasizing about killing this- this woman, killing the waitress?" And you know he--

Charlie: It's your disappointment when you have to- when you realize what you're not actually gonna do that. That's so funny. Like, "Oh yeah, right."

Glenn: Yeah. Forget- forgetting that we're not actually killing her that we're just- we're just- we're just going through all the steps that lead up to the killing, and then be, yeah, and being and having to switch gears. Be huh okay, yes, right. [laughs]

Charlie: Right. Okay. Yeah.

Glenn: Right. We're not- Yeah, no, of course, I mean-

Charlie: Get back to the real world and there's some disappointment in that.


Glenn: Yeah and still not being able to totally let it go and being like, you know, just being like, "Huh, it'd be better if we could- if I can, actually, uh you know, but yeah, no. You're right."

Megan: [laughs] Yeah, the hands of going out to strangle her.

Glenn: But no, you're right. You're right. No, we're not gonna, yeah. Uh. [laughs] Um, I also- I love the twist. I love- I love the, uh, I don't think you see the Gary thing coming at all. I don't think you see that coming at all. It just comes off like a, you know, a schlub that- that Sweet Dee is taking advantage of and, um, you know, I-I also love that we put the question to him about the gardening shears of like, "Do you- do you think this would cut through bone?"

And his answer the way he answers it the way I think you've interpreted as the audience the first time you're seeing it, is like, uh, I guess. Like, "I, why would someone ask me that, right?" Is the subtext of that. When really his subtext is like, "Oh, I have to be careful how I answer this because I know the answer to this."


Megan: Yeah.

Charlie: Yeah, yeah, or like, "Do they know something about me and how do they know it?"

Glenn: Right? Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. [laughs] But you're- but by the way jumping- jumping to the end, uh, like your reaction you know your- your joy and having won the case and then going to get a beer, and then I remember when we were shooting that like it was one of those things where like, I- I don't know if we did- maybe- maybe when we were- because we always you know when we do our three-man rewrite of every episode, we're always acting this stuff out and I do think that I do- I think that I knew you were going to do something like that and getting to watch you actually do it in the episode was such a joy like that-that the whole like, uh, you know, the wah, bap, bap.


There's heads.

Charlie: Yeah, there's heads yeah.

Glenn: It's- it's a- it's a

Megan: 10, 15 heads in there.

Charlie: Yeah, there might be a beer back there, but I'm not gonna go looking for it.


Glenn: Yeah, I think, um, I think when we-- I don't know if you remember this, but- but when we got there on the day to shoot that and they filled that fridge with heads, it was all- it was all like male heads. There was like maybe one woman and it was all dudes and it was like-

Charlie: I believe there's something wrong where they-they looked terrible. Were they not covered in frost? We frosted them up, right? So-

Glenn: Uh, I don't- I'm not sure about that. I do remember, however, that- that it was not- it should have just been a fridge full of heads of young blonde women.

Charlie: Right because we had established that it was young blonde women. Yeah.

Glenn: Right, but instead it was like a var- it was a variety pack of- of- of people.

Charlie: Well those are the ones they found. [laughs]

Glenn: Right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Charlie: You know those are the- those are the ones that people were concerned when they were missing.


You know like-

Glenn: Oh God that's so fucked up.

Charlie: He-he popped off a few sort of drifters as well.


Megan: That's a good explanation.

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: I mean, I do think that's actually the case when- when things like that happen, which is like, you know, I think those people sort of test their skills first on people that, you know, won't draw attention and then-

Glenn: Why am I laughing?

Charlie: I don't know. I don't wanna know.

Megan: I've always thought that the reason he was killing blonde women was because he couldn't have Dee and there were some reason like because he clearly is really infatuated with her. Did you guys mean that? That like he actually was killing blonde women because he was obsessed with Dee?

Charlie: No, I don't think we ever pictured anyone really wanting Dee.


That's sort of part of the lure of the show is-

Glenn: It is really- it is really, it is very- it is very fun. [crosstalk]

Megan: Yeah.

Glenn: It is very fun to like, uh-- Oh, whoa.


Charlie: Oh hey. Hey man.

Glenn: Oh, no way. Whoa.

Rob McElhenney: I'm so - I'm so sorry.

Charlie: Oh thank you so much.


Glenn: Thank you so much.

Rob: I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

Charlie: How itchy is it though? But seriously, how itchy is it? We've already found the audience that it was, you know-

Glenn: It was worms.

Charlie: -you're dealing the lice and the pinworms and, uh-

Rob: I'm so sorry. Uh, this is terrible. All joking aside, I'm so sorry. Your-your time is- my time is not more valuable than yours. We agreed to this time. I fucked it up. I'm late. I did my best as you can see, I'm like sweating.

Glenn: You're sweating?

Rob: And um, I'm sweating but I- I'm so sorry to you, I'm so sorry to Megan, I'm so sorry to the audience. I fucked it up.

Megan: Well, also your- your mic is not- is not being used.

Rob: I literally just turned this on and was like-

Megan: Okay.

Rob: -How quickly can I get into this?

Megan: Okay, so we'll just scrap that.

Glenn: Yeah, that's okay.

Megan: Let's not even bother. Don't even bother to set it up. We'll do it next time.

Glenn: Yeah, don't worry about it, man.

Megan: Just leave it.

Charlie: I'm a daddy.

Megan: It's not gonna work. We'll do it later. Now, your mic’s off. I'm gonna leave all this in the cut.

Rob: It's just me apologizing for me fucking up. Hello. Can you hear me?

Megan: Just leave it, it's fine. We can hear you. Yeah, but it's not coming through that mic so it's fine, but just move it out of the way and we'll just- we'll just take it through the audio the--

Glenn: Next time baby. You're gonna have plenty of chances.

Megan: It's okay.

Glenn: Hey, Rob.

Rob: Okay.

Glenn: Rob. Rob, calm down, calm down.


Take a deep- take a deep breath.

Charlie: Take a deep breath. Take a deep breath.

Glenn: Grab a p- grab a piece of ice or something rub it all over your face and your body and just-

Charlie: We'll get into it.

Glenn: There you go. You're getting the ice right now or what I'm I hearing?

Rob: Look at my face- look at my nose is getting red again. And I haven't had any alcohol. So now I think we're realizing that when I overheat my nose just gets, I don't know.

Glenn: Either that or you're drinking now during the day. Oh, what is that?

Charlie: Are you sure you're not drinking?

Rob: Vodka?

Glenn: Vodka.

Rob: Could it be vodka?

Charlie: You got a whole thing of vodka that nose knows.

Glenn: Vodka. Oh, buddy, the bummer of it is- is that I feel like we've been going over so many great highlights of this episode. Did you get a chance to watch it?

Rob: I did and I loved it.

Glenn: Okay, we were- we were-

Charlie: It's a goodie. It's a goodie.

Glenn: It's real, it's good, right?

Charlie: What we haven't gotten into in this episode is Mac and-and how good Mac is in this episode and then you know, you do a gear in this episode that you do in Mac's Banging Dennis' Mom, where you have the secret that you don't want anyone to know. And you- you play it really funny. You have this thing where you like, sort of repeat people's sentences when they speak to you. I think it’s like, you're-- like they'll be like, "Hey, Mac, how are you doing?" You be like, "How are you doing?" Like uh, some kind of thing that you do. That's really funny. I don't know, but think you do it in two episodes today and then we never did it again but it's- it's a good gear.

Rob: We should go back to it.

Charlie: We should get you hiding something.

Rob: Yeah.

Glenn: Yeah, it's also- it's also- it's also funny like, I mean, again, you know, we're always talking about the characters’ just complete and total obliviousness but one of my favorite lines ever of yours is in this episode when you're talking to, um, Carmen and, uh, you know, she's saying, "Why I feel like you don't want to be seen with me." And you're like, "No, I don't mind being seen with you.

I just, you know, uh, whatever." But like, I but the line is that that's just one of my favorite lines of yours ever is, um, I'm not- I'm not ashamed of you, I'm ashamed of myself.


Rob: Yes, and that's supposed to make you feel better.

Charlie: It's a good blow.

Glenn: Exactly, right? It's just a great example of- of saying something that you think is like you think you're saying something- you're thinking you're saying like no, you're- you're -- I'm not ashamed of you, I'm ashamed of myself.

Rob: You're- No, you're great. You're great. It's just that I'm ashamed of being with you.

Megan: [chuckles]

Glenn: Yes, yes [chuckles].

Rob: So-

Glenn: Yeah. Which is just, uh [crosstalk]-

Rob: Yeah, uh, again that source was leaning all the way into it as far as we could.

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: Always making the joke [crosstalk]-

Charlie: Oh, yeah.

Rob: -about the-these pieces of shit.

Glenn: Yeah, yeah.

Megan: See, I really liked the moment where you bring the wine coolers, and then she's like, "Did you bring the condoms?" And you're like, "Not really into the whole condom thing?"


Charlie: Ooh.

Glenn: Ohh.

Rob: Yeah.

Glenn: Not really into the whole condom thing.

Megan: [laughs]

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: Uh, there're so-- There're so many great moments in this episode where characters, uh, are-are-are do-- We're doing the thing that we do talk about where we're on the same page overall but undercutting each other along the way and disagreeing on the details. You know, um, you know, just the-just the-- Uh, through the whole episode, you know what I mean? Just like, um, you know, cut it like--

Charlie: Was this the first episode we see Mac's bedroom because of the- the joke when Frank walks in, where he goes, like, "What's the- what's the decorum in here? What's the vibe in here?" Was he going for like [crosstalk]-

Rob: [unintelligible 00:20:59]

Charlie: -[unintelligible 00:20:59] Yeah.

Rob: Yeah.

Rob: I could have [crosstalk]

Glenn: And do you remember we [crosstalk]-

Rob: -the first time

Glenn: And that-- That's actually, um, [unintelligible 00:21:06] you know, the-the more astute, um, creep will pick up on the fact that, um, that does not look like Mac's bedroom because it wasn't, it was actually Dennis' bedroom that was-- But we had-- That year for whatever reason we didn't build your bedroom, we just thought like, "Ah, we'll just redress Dennis' bedroom and make it look like Mac's bedroom. So the orientation of that room-

Rob: Yeah, it doesn't make sense.

Glenn: -where the door is.

Charlie: Yeah, where the door is [crosstalk]-

Glenn: It doesn't track with-with what we've said your room looks like now. Um, I don't know why we didn't then build your room to look like that, that would have made more sense. I think was like a staged [crosstalk] space thing or whatever. But, uh-

Charlie: Yeah, something-- Yeah, [crosstalk]-

Rob: It's always money, it always comes down to money. We didn't have the money to do it right, basically.

Glenn: [chuckles]

Charlie: Is-is both money and experience on our part, right? To say like someone is cutting corners on our behalf, but like the three of us didn't know to say, "Hey, let's not cut that particular corner, go ahead and cut some other corner, but that one matters to us." You know when-when you [crosstalk]-

Rob: Yeah, it's just-- And that just comes with-with experience.

Charlie: Yeah.

Rob: Did you guys notice, have you talk-- I don't know if you've talked about this already. Um, the-- that there's music, there's ambient music that's playing in the background of the scene in the-in the hardware store that we're essentially saying is playing in the background, is actually playing in the store, that would be source, and it is now score that we use as transitional music, and actually we use it quite often.

Megan: Oh.

Charlie: Yeah, [crosstalk]-

Rob: Did you notice that?

Glenn: That was the first- that was the first time we'd ever used that song was [crosstalk]-

Rob: Mm-hmm.

Glenn: -it was as source music, um [crosstalk]-

Charlie: Uh.

Glenn: -for the listener or creep out there who doesn't know that. I think you'd explained it, but yeah. Source. When you put source music and that means you're putting music in that's actually playing, that's actually supposed to be in the- in-in the scene with the character [crosstalk]-

Charlie: Yeah, it's coming from a car radio, uh [crosstalk]-

Glenn: Right.

Charlie: -speaker at, uh, a restaurant, uh [crosstalk]-

Glenn: As opposed to score which [crosstalk]-

Charlie: -iPhone.

Glenn: As opposed to score which the characters don't hear because that's, yeah, score, but, um, I didn't know, I didn't- I didn't notice that. I don't even know what you're talking about.

Charlie: Is it the [hums]

Rob: No, it's faster-paced. In fact, we should probably play that clip right now.


Again, we want you to know that this podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp online therapy.

Charlie: If you're not familiar with BetterHelp, it's an online therapy service that offers video, phone, and even live chat sessions with licensed therapists all around the world. How it works is you answer questions and BetterHelp assesses your needs and matches you with the right person to talk to in less than two days. It's not just about who's around you or who's available, it's about who's best for you.

Megan: Yeah, I've actually used BetterHelp before because I had, uh, uh, a sort of temporary problem that I wanted to see a therapist, um, quickly about, and it was really, really easy to use. I signed up and they matched me with someone really quickly.

Glenn: Well that's about-- Yeah, I mean, that's the best part of it, right? You get matched to-to the person that's the most right for you. You're not like tethered to, you know, whoever's in your area, whoever's available, whoever you can get an appointment with. You can get, uh, matched with the right person from all over the world and you don't have to sit in traffic and go to the person's office, you get to just do it right from your laptop computer.

Charlie: That's right, The Always Sunny Podcast listeners get 10% off their first month of online therapy at

Rob: Creeps, you are already reading this with your eyeballs but listeners that's H-E-L-P, not betterhealth.

Glenn: Go to for 10% off your first month of therapy.


Glenn: Oh, that.


Okay, so-so we had never used that as score before. Uh, we found it, used it as a source, and then we were like, "Oh, that's- that's good, let's, uh, let's start using it a score."

Rob: Or maybe we had, and we just didn't care. I don't know, we were like, "Oh, maybe it can be both."

Glenn: Oh, I wouldn't put it past us to have used that at a score and then just use that at a source because it was the only thing that fit that we liked, and we didn't want to spend a bunch of ton of money [chuckles]]

Charlie: Same, yeah [chuckles].

Rob: Yeah, more money. What about Pepper Jack?

Glenn: No, we talked about- we talked about [crosstalk]-

Charlie: We did mention it, but we haven't gone in to-- uh, in a depth into it.

Glenn: Yeah, he's amazing.

Rob: This is the first- this is the first mention of Larry Bird. We've already talked about that.

Glenn: We have [crosstalk]-

Charlie: [crosstalk] Larry Bird.

Glenn: Yes is the first ment-- Yeah, that-- The second mention though of Dee being a bird, first being, uh [crosstalk]-

Rob: Yes.

Glenn: -called a big bird in the basketball episode, but then this one.

Charlie: Mm-hmm.

Glenn: The first time we called her Larry Bird, and then, uh, and then I think that's where it took, right? Then-then she became-- Then we just started calling our bird after that, right?

Rob: Yeah [chuckles].

Glenn: [chuckles]

Charlie: I don't remember like, I do, uh, [crosstalk]-

Rob: There's- there's such a weird delay. There's a weird delay in-in-- Uh, and I don't know if it's- if it's because we're waiting for each other to speak or if there was actually just a delay, but I-

Glenn: Oh.

Rob: I'm like-- There's- there's like a full second after somebody speaks [crosstalk]-

Megan: [chuckles]

Rob: -to where [chuckles] some-somebody else speaks, and it's really fucking up the rhythm. Is anybody else feeling that, or am I just coming in and fucking up a rhythm that you guys created and was working?

Charlie: I don't know. I won't say, we were like [crosstalk]-

Rob: [chuckles] There was a pause, like three seconds.

Charlie: -uh, on-on fire, but that- but that-- We had to think about it though, that was just thinking.

Rob: Okay, okay. Okay.

Charlie: And I was thinking. Uh-

Glenn: Uh, I was gonna- I was gonna pause for a full three seconds, and I was really hoping [crosstalk]-

Charlie: [chuckles]

Glenn: -that you would do the same thing.

Charlie: Just like fake freezing.

Glenn: Oh, yeah.

Megan: Well, there was like an 18-minute [crosstalk]-

Charlie: And--

Megan: -delay, of you showing up, Rob? I don't know if you felt that.

Charlie: Yeah. There was an 18-minute delay.

Rob: Yes.

Megan: We felt that. Yeah.

Charlie: Um.

Glenn: We sure felt that.

Megan: [chuckles]

Charlie: And then we've repeated some things here, so that's part of it like an echo.

Rob: I'm sorry. I'm sorry [sighs].

Charlie: Uh, I don't know.

Glenn: Megan didn't have some- didn't have some questions for us? Did you want to prompt us on anything, or?

Megan: I did have some questions for you. One is, um, have you ever dated anyone that you kept from your like friends and family, like, didn't want anyone to know about?

Glenn: Yeah.

Megan: [chuckles]

Charlie: You have?

Rob: You have?

Glenn: Well, I mean, not since I've been married.


She said it like- like it's the most lascivious thing ever.

Megan: [chuckles]

Glenn: Um-

Charlie: But what was the [crosstalk]-

Rob: What were you hiding?

Charlie: -details. What were you ashamed of, or can you not share?

Glenn: I-I wasn't ashamed. Well, uh, it was- it was weird to me. You know, this is something that came I think a little bit later in my dating life. Uh, where if I was dating somebody, but it wasn't like my girlfriend, and it was like, serious, I kept-- I kind of kept it separate from the rest of my life because it felt weird, you know like, that- and you guys always had those friends, right? Who-who were just either just like every single time you hung out with them they were like dating a new person, and you're like, "Oh, okay." And they're like, "Yeah, this is so and so." And you're like, "Oh." Like, "Okay, you're-- I thought what happened to-- What happened to--" You know, [unintelligible 00:28:14] like, "Oh, no, I'm dating, I'm dating this person now."

Megan: [chuckles]

Glenn: You know, and you're just like, "[unintelligible 00:28:19] Okay, do you have to introduce me to every motherfucker that you date, like, really? Seriously, you're gonna fucking bring--" Like, always bringing like [unintelligible 00:28:26], like, it brings an energy to like a get-together or a party, that like, kind of can throw shit off if it's like-- if you don't know for sure that that person is going to click with your group of friends or whatever, but like, you know, I don't know, so I-I kept it separate, actually [chuckles]. Sadly.

Charlie: Keep it separated, Megan got us [crosstalk]-

Rob: Well, I-I-I kept the fact that, um, I was dating my spouse. Um, she was not my spouse at the time, but I was dating my co-star from you guys, so maybe that would count.

Charlie: Yeah.

Rob: Yeah, that counts.

Charlie: Sure.

Rob: That's a big one.

Glenn: It's [unintelligible 00:28:58] [crosstalk]-

Rob: [unintelligible 00:28:59]-

Glenn: It's crazy that I didn't see it, it's 'cause it's crazy 'cause she used to-- she would- she would- she would-- We'd be in our apartment and she'd be like, "Oh, I'm just gonna go to sleep on the--" You know, we had-- we-we-we built that big, like, that big mattress platform thing [crosstalk]-

Charlie: [chuckles]

Rob: Yes.

Glenn: -that we could watch movies on and shit. She'd just like, pass out on that, and then I'd wake up next morning, and you know, she was there, and I was like [chuckles], "


Rob: We were counting on the fact that you're always just doing your own thing [chuckles]. You were [crosstalk]-

Glenn: Yeah, I was.

Charlie: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Rob: You we're just focused on what you were doing, and we're like, "Glenn is not going to notice shit." Trust me it's all good.

Glenn: He-- And you're-you're totally right. Uh, I did not notice shit.

Charlie: Yeah. Uh, that's what-- Yeah, I would-- I don't feel like you needed to keep it secret, but-

Rob: No.

Charlie: Like I understand the motivation.

Rob: But actually for the same reason that Glenn, but that Glenn, uh, brought up, which is that if it didn't work out, and that-- I think we weren't even mature enough at the time to recognize like, if this doesn't work out we don't want it to ruin the dynamic of the TV show because the TV show’s working and we can keep it professional and personal sort of separate, so if we brought you into it and-and then it kind of fell apart, it would, might just be weird, and I think that was a huge part of it too.

Glenn: Yeah, totally

Charlie: Uh, I don't think I ever kept a relationship secret. They were hard to get, um-


Charlie: -so if I got one, you know, everybody knew. Uh, and, uh, and then I've been in one for, I don't know, 55, 60 years now, you know. That good long stretch so.

Megan: [chuckles]

Rob: Does anybody keep anything to themselves anymore? Because it feels as though-

Charlie: No.

Rob: - I don't wanna be the old man, uh, out here in the podcast space bitching about the next generation, 'cause it's not the next generation, it's everybody. It's everybody of our generation. It's every-- Our parents' generation below. Everybody is just-- They're not holding anything back at any point. Everybody needs to be expressing themselves at all times and they need to feel heard at all times, and it doesn't matter.

I-i-if-if maybe it's something so private that you could just maybe navigate that yourself. You don't need to bring that out into the world, uh, and be heard at-at all times. I know that oftentimes I'm a real piece of shit, and if I express myself and I'm in those moods I, is publicly, I immediately, maybe the four or five times I've done it, I'm like, "Oh, that was so stupid. That's not me. That's not representative of-of who I am." Do you feel that way?

Glenn: This doesn't represent me.

Rob: Um--

Charlie: Doesn't represent me.

Megan: [laughing]

Rob: But because I felt the need to tell everybody everything in this exact moment and I have access to everybody at every moment, I fucked it up.

Glenn: I definitely don't, uh, tend to overshare in that way, uh, probably for the same reasons that you're, you know, you don't. It's-- That's like, it seems weird to me. I mean, and it's not, you know, I have no problem sharing things and being very authentic and honest about what's going on. I mean, I think we've hit moments like that often on this podcast where, you know, we get very, we stop down and we get very real and we're not making jokes and shit and we're just, you know, talking about real stuff.

But, um, yeah, I don't feel the need to share every aspect of my life with, uh, with everyone. And-and you know, to be clear, it wasn't that I ever kept a relationship a secret. I never, I never like purposely was like, "Oh, I can't let anyone know." It was just, I kept them, it was more like I kept them separate. I kept those things separate. It was like, I had my group of friends and then I had someone that I was dating and, you know, and it went [unintelligible 00:32:23] --

Charlie: I think that's totally fair to be like, "I don't know about this person yet, and I'm not sure-

Glenn: Exactly.

Charlie: -I wanna like cross that bridge of bringing them into my friends," which you probably prioritized at that time of your life-

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: -and it's, you know-- Look, I'm deeply uncomfortable sharing stuff. I rarely like post anything on the internet. I'm not on Twitter. Uh, I don't know why. I guess I could kind of do some work on that, but [laughs] uh,

Glenn: No, I don't think-- I-I know why. It's because you're-you're a private person and I think that's very normal to be a private person, and-and-and also like it does color, you know, if too much of your life is out there, uh, for everyone to know about and see, you know, it-it colors their perception of you every time you play a character. I mean, I know for me--

Charlie: I agree with that. Look, I think also Glenn, you, and I, I know specifically got into this because we had a love for acting, and we had a love for a very certain style of acting which I don't know if it exists anymore, but like, you know, we were idolizing those sort of '70s, you know, iconic actors that some were method, some weren't method, but that the acting was the most paramount thing in their life, and you didn't know much about them personally so that every time they appeared on screen, you were like, "Oh, man, I'm gonna get to see," fill in the blank, what Daniel Day-Lewis, you know, which you know kind of nothing about, but you wanna go see him in the theater or Joaquin Phoenix or somebody. Um--

Glenn: I don't like this line has blurred so much, you know, between, uh, being a celebrity and being a, uh, like a personality, you know, like-

Charlie: Mm.

Glenn: -and we kind of- we-we touched on this a little bit last time we were talking about the whole, like Paris Hilton thing, and I was, you know, jokingly, half-jokingly saying that I find that whole thing disgusting, but, uh, but like, I-I just have, I've always been very uncomfortable with the idea of being famous. Now, I would like to draw-draw a distinction between, you know, just being sort of a celebrity in general and being someone for whom your work means something to them, right?

So like, I-I-I absolutely love it when somebody who's a big fan of Sunny or anything that I've done comes up and is like, "Hey, man, I really like your work." That feels good to me. I'm like, "This person enjoyed my work." That's what I wanted to- that's what I always wanted to put out into the world. I never wanted to be a personality. I never wanted to be like, uh, a celebrity or whatever. I just, you know, wanted to do good work, and, you know, I-- When that's appreciated, it's great, but like, you know, to be famous for, uh, I don't know, like, whatever people get famous for these days that-that's not of substance.

Charlie: Well, there is, yeah. There's a tipping point with fame where it really can become like, um, you know, you look at like, Pete Davidson who I like so much. I've worked with him and-and--

Glenn: Yeah. He's great, man. He's funny.

Charlie: He's a great guy, and I think he's super funny and talented. You start dating Kim Kardashian and the eyes of the world are on you and you're in a different level of fame, and how does that affect people when you show up in a movie? I, hard to say, you know. But in terms of like, Sunny fans coming up to us, it's great. Like, I love people knowing the show, and I like when people come up to me and say, they like the show.

And I kinda wanna go back to something I said two episodes ago, where Megan, you were asking us about memes, and I made a joke that it was memeing-less to me or whatever. The truth is, I love it. Like when I read memes, I fucking laugh my ass off 'cause they're all hilarious. I love that any time someone wants to refer to someone as insane, they put up a picture of me in front of the corkboard. Like, that's like one of the best things that's ever happened to me in my life.-

Glenn: Yeah, it's a big-- Any conspiracy theory is-is like, is often, the meme is often you from that episode, yeah.

Charlie: Yeah, but I also don't wanna just constantly be on the internet telling people what I'm eating for breakfast and, uh, and I-I'm really grateful that we don't get like, chased around by paparazzi, which, you know, we all know people who are like that and it's-it's tough on their- on them. You know, it's a crazy life.

Glenn: I would really struggle with that, I can tell you that right now. It-it's terrifying to me. It's this weird thing where like, but you also recognize that celebrity has, it has value in helping you to get the kind of gigs that you want as an actor, right? So if you mean something to people, if you are a celebrity, if you're a big enough celebrity and you have a big enough following or like fan base or whatever, uh, you're more likely to get those big roles that you want.

Rob: The moment in time that you're refer- you're referring to, Charlie, which was yes, the '70s and '80s, but it was really like 100 years of popular culture, um, that we were at the tail end of where you were making connections with characters in movies and/or television shows, and you were identifying with them and you were making those connections and they were bringing you, uh, a different perspective of life, they were bringing you joy, they were bringing you sadness, they were bringing you a- the full range of human experience, and you had a connection to those characters.

And I think what's happening now or has been happening for the last 15, 20 years, and very acutely now is that I think people's connections to characters has changed in so far as we-we are now, for example, giving access to people in a way that we hadn't in the past. We've only done it through the work, but this would be an example, the podcast itself, where we're giving access to people in a way that we haven't done before.

It's actually us, and you'll, I think that's a huge part of why social media is such a huge, uh, such a huge part of our culture now is because people are getting past that artifice and they're having now a connection with you as you are. Now, whether or not we're willing to give that to them is the- that's the scary line, right? But-but I think it's still the same in so far as it's people seeking to identify with another human being, or a character, or a real person, but someone who brings a little bit more light to their life.

Charlie: Yeah, I think then it boils down to like, what-what do you want personally, in terms of like, what do you want to give? Not like, what are you capable of giving, but like what-what do you want to give? Like, um, I'm finding this to be a good experience, just 'cause of connecting with you guys, and I'm glad that it's reaching an audience and connecting them too. Um, the thing that turns me on the most just as a person is making-- So let me use a hoity-toity word, but making a piece of art, right? Like, making an episode of the show, making a movie, like really kind of creating and making a thing, which is not me in my life, but that's pretty much all I care-care about.

Like, that's just my passion in life. That's what-that's what excites me. That's what I feel like gives me meaning and purpose. Uh, so it's interesting trying to-- But it's a balance, right? 'Cause I also know, okay, if I go do that, if I go do whatever, Horrible Bosses, or I Want You Back, there's an expectation from the studio that I also sell the movie by selling myself, right? So like, go on a talk show, go be you, you know, like, [chuckles] go on a show where you eat increasingly hot, hot sauce, which I think when I went on, I remember being kind of in a grumpy mood being like, wait, "Where am I? What am I doing?" And then of course--

Glenn: This is, "I'm doing a hot sauce show now? What the fuck happened?

Megan: [chuckles]-

Charlie: I know, and now it's like, one of my favorite things I-Igot to do.

Glenn: Al Pacino never did a hot sauce show.

Charlie: Kinda, yeah, kinda, but they're-- Yeah.

Rob: It's just whatever your art, whatever your artistic line is, right? I mean like. -

Charlie: Yeah, what's the line for you?

Rob: Like, okay, so as a fan of Glenn, as a fan of Glenn, I recognize, I can see in his camera that he is staying in a hotel room. There's a part of me that wants to know, how many times today, or since you got to the hotel room have you masturbated? I wanna know. Now I wanna know that as your friend, I wanna know-

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: -that as a fan of yours, 'cause I find it funny. I'm picturing you landing and being like, I haven't been away from my family in like a year and a half. I'm gonna lock this door and I'm gonna beat my dick like it owes me money and I'm gonna do it for-

Glenn: Mm-hmm.

Rob: -like a solid three hours.

Megan: [laughs]

Rob: I like to think that.

Glenn: Yeah. I'm gonna strip a couple, I'm gonna strip at least three or four layers of skin off this thing.

Megan: [laughs] Oh God.

Rob: Yes, now.

Glenn: You know what I mean, like.

Charlie: There's gonna be people banging on his hotel wall being like, "Are you okay in there?"


"Is everything okay? I hear a lot of screaming."

Rob: There's so much screaming.

Charlie: Are you okay?

Rob: There's so much screaming. Are you doing voices? Is it, how many people are in there? It's just one.

Glenn: Yeah.- It's just one, but I'm an actor. Don't worry about it.

Rob: I wanna know about that.

Glenn: It's fine. I play all the characters.

Megan: [laughs]

Charlie: I'm getting into character.

Glenn: I'm just like an Eddie Murphy thing every time I masturbate, all right. Just-just let me do my thing.

Charlie: Let me get into character. Leave me alone.


Glenn: I can't talk-talk right now, not now. Don't talk to me now.- Um--

Rob: So I-I can understand the-the-the desire from a-a person out there in the world, like I wanna-- I think that would be amazing. If I'm listening to SmartLess and I, and-and-and Jason were to go check himself into a hotel room and he started, would start talking about that. I would find it absolutely fascinating and probably hilarious-

Glenn: Mm.

Rob: -but there's also a weird connection because anybody that's alone or have been alone or away from people for the first time in a long time knows exactly what that feeling is like, but we don't talk about it a lot in public-

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: -because it's either base or private or whatever. I get that too, and I-I also understand why you wouldn't wanna tweet that out to the world, but yet I still would love to hear.

Glenn: Well, I mean that's. Yeah, sure. I mean, that's why you built a whole separate little house for yourself, right? So that you could just have-

Megan: [laughs]

Glenn: -what you call.

Charlie: Right, that's, yeah, yeah. Maybe why you were so sweaty and 18 minutes late. It's fine.


Rob: This is, this, look, this is not for sweat.

Charlie: Oh, no. For the listener at home, he's holding up a dark rag.

Glenn: Oh, I thought it was a raccoon.

Rob: It's dry, it's dry.

Charlie: Get the pelts. -

Glenn: Well, it's dry now.

Rob: Megan almost threw up. I think Megan almost threw up. Yeah, there's been-- Look, look. I spend a lot of time down here. I'm-I'm a human being.

Charlie: Yeah, of course. I have needs.

Rob: From time to time, I-I find time for myself.

Charlie: You have needs and a high-speed internet connection, and one thing leads to another, and--


Somebody brought to my attention and I don't want to, uh, I don't wanna kick horses while they're down, but the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard thing-

Glenn: Mm-hmm.

Charlie: -like, apparently in their trial, somebody had pooped in the bed and that- and they were talking about like who pooped the bed, and Sunny fans were delighted by this fact.

Megan: [laughs]

Glenn: Yeah, yeah of course. Like, it is a strange- it is a strange reaction to something to be like, "I'm gonna shit in bed. I'm gonna shit in the fucking bed. I'm gonna shit the bed. How do you like me now? I shit the bed, you fuck--"

Rob: Oh, wait, wait. Was it done on purpose?

Glenn: Oh, I mean I--

Charlie: I've not, I have not been reading. Someone just told me about this, and I'm like, "Yeah."

Rob: Oh, okay.

Glenn: Oh, I think it was a vengeful-

Rob: I thought it was just--

Glenn: Yeah, no, I think it was a vengeful act.

Rob: Oh, vengeful act. Oh, gosh.

Glenn: I believe so you could.

Rob: Again.

Charles: You can- you could probably measure the poop for the levels of stress.

Glenn: It was a shit-- yeah, there's rings. There's rings.

Charlie: Yeah, if it's a high-stress ex-excretion, um, then.

Glenn: It's gonna come out in a blast. It's gonna come out wet and it's gonna come out fast.

Charlie: Yeah, poop with intent.

Rob: And again, I feel like I'm boring. I'm not only boring sexually, I'm boring with like, my revenge schemes. That would never occur to me. What, I'm gonna go in and defecate?

Charlie: Have you been doing a lot of revenge?

Rob: I mean, I dabble in it, I dabble in it, but not to that extent.

Glenn: Sure. Yeah, yeah.

Charlie: I-I-I'm not big on revenge.

Glenn: I think I sort of go, you know, with the old, an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind thing, you know what I mean, uh-- Unless it's a--

Rob: Charlie is very sweetly and casually saying, Charlie is, he very honestly, "I'm-I'm not big on revenge," which is very sweet. -

Charlie: [unintelligible 00:44:26] not big on revenge, yeah. Just gotta move on, it's like--

Rob: And I believe that. I don't dabble in revenge. I was just making a crack. I-I'm trying to think if I-- I think there are consequences, meaning like there, I think there are natural consequences to treating me a certain way, but I wouldn't call that revenge, right?

Charlie: That's not revenge though, but here's what, here's what freaks me out about revenge. I'm too scared that the person will then take it another step even further.

Glenn: Exactly. Yeah.

Charlie: You know what I mean? That it's like, oh, someone did something to you, and then you're like, "Okay, great. I'm gonna poop in a box and mail it to them, and then they're like, gonna poop in a box for the rest of my life and mail it to me." I'm like, "No way. I don't wanna--"

Rob: Yeah.

Glenn: I know, you get into that with the wrong person, and boy, it never ends.

Charlie: Yeah, yeah. Some people are better at revenge than others, for sure.

Glenn: Yeah, and they'll just keep going.

Rob: Yeah. I think my issue with revenge is that once-- I can get zero to a 10 very quickly as we all can to a certain extent, but I, then I'm in the moment I can see me doing something irrational, but-but 15 minutes later, or 20 minutes later, I feel like I can calm-calm down, and then the idea of some level of retribution for whatever happened that would not occur to me. I don't think-- Meg, you spend a lot of time with me. Have you, have you noticed that it might?

Megan: Um, that you've been revengeful? No, you're so like good at confrontation in the moment that I don't ever see you, like waiting for later to like-like, you would just say it, you know, outright. Like, I always say that my favorite part about working, well with any of you guys in the- in the writer's room is that I've worked for some showrunners that I can tell like I pitch something that they don't like, and they do this like whole song and dance of like, letting me down gently by like, "Oh, yeah, that's interesting. Let's consider that idea." But you guys are great 'cause you'll just be like, "Nah, that's not it."


And then just move on. And I kind of appreciate that because like the-the-the-there's something patronizing about like needing to let me down gently as opposed to just like being confrontational and be like, "No, that's not it," because there's an assumption there that I'll come up with a better idea if you just tell me you don't like that one. So I-I prefer that, which is like, just throw out the parts. Like, I remember pitching The Gang Replaces Dee With a Monkey to you guys, and like the first time that I was pitching it, like, I think there was a whole different story, and then the monkey was just like a very small part of it and you guys were like, "Well, we like the monkey, but like, basically get rid of the rest of it," and then I was like, "Cool, all right."


Charlie: The monkey, that works.-

Glenn: And that was- and as I recall, that was coming on the heels of another conversation about something else where we were talking about something being too broad.-

Megan: Yes. [laughs]

Glenn: And we were like, we don't wanna tip into too broad, and then we left to go do something else. We came back, you pitched us a story and you very reticently were like, "Okay," and there's a point at which we possibly replace Dee with a monkey, and-and you were like, [unintelligible 00:47:06] just waiting for the like, "That's fucking crazy," but instead we were like, "Well now, hang on a second. What if the whole thing was the monkey?" You know what I mean, just like.

Megan: Yeah. [laughs]

Charlie: In this season there is sort of a joyful like, silliness to some of the stuff that we might not approach anymore which

Glenn: Season three?

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: That, yeah.

Charlie: Which I'm finding works better than I thought where I'm like, "Oh, this is whatever. We're just, we're interrogating Mac's mom, and with the headphones and the mic, and it's just funny."

Megan: The chainsaw thing that you want Frank to take your picture with the chainsaw and you do that-

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: It's amazing.

Megan: -like tongue things?

Charlie: Yeah, yeah, the-the-the little bow you put on your mom's head or whatever. We'd probably still do that, but that's just so fucking funny.

Glenn: Well, that's not--

Rob: That form of communication, we-we-we've had that form of communication since the beginning, and I think that-that really is born out of respect. You're creating a room full of people and everybody, the assumption is everybody deserves to be there because they've earned-earned it, and now if there's an idea that comes up that-that-that isn't good enough, it's not like you're taking someone's whole self of self-worth and saying, "No, you're, not only are you wrong, but you're incapable."

It's more just like, "No, the idea didn't work," but you're not identifying the idea with your ego. You're just saying, "No great, that didn't work, move on." Um, so yeah, it's like born out of respect, and I think that was something we've always done, isn't it? Like, I remember that in the beginning--

Charlie: We would never like, have someone pitch us something and be like, "That's so stupid, you idiot," you know-

Rob: No.

Charlie: -like that's, no, but we also, like, we wouldn't like, put on kid gloves and be like, "That's a really good idea. Let's think about it." We'd be like, "Nah, that-that doesn't feel right." What else, and then just keep going?

Glenn: Yeah, yeah, keep going.

Charlie: And we do that to each other constantly.

Rob: Yeah, it's a stage space.

Megan: What's the Danny line again you said, "Nah. Nah." What's the thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rob: Not that though.

Glenn: Not that though.

Charlie: Not that though.

Rob: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but no, not that.-

Charlie: Yeah, not that, though.

Glenn: Yeah, something like that, but not that.


Megan: Were you guys into true crime stuff at all? Like, do you ever, 'cause this episode's all about like, kind of like true crime type, serial killer stuff? Did you guys ever get into that?

Glenn: If you can tell me--

Rob: I'm into that to a certain extent, but-but I definitely know that's more of a female thing. Like, all the women in my life are super into that, like 20/20 and Dateline and stories of women being dismembered and mu-murdered for some reason, appeal to-- I don't know is that you think you're getting tricks as to how you're gonna evade the killer, but I-I also noticed that Kaitlin, even in the ones where it's like, Killer Women, I'm like, "Oh, I get this, I understand shit. She was physically or emotionally abused, and she took, she took revenge and poisoned her husband and killed him," and Kaitlin's like, "Nah, I don't care for that."


I'm like, which ones are the ones you wanna watch? And she's like, I don't know like the woman's been gone for 20 years and what happened to her? We don't know. Uh, that's so fucked up. What is that?

Glenn: Right. [chuckles]

Megan: I think- I think it's because like at least I watched them and it's like, it's both yes like you picked up, it's like things you're afraid of so then you watch it and you're like okay, well, like note never to do this thing but also I like feeling superior to the victims because there's always a moment where I'm like well, I wouldn't have done that and therefore, I wouldn't have died that way. So-

Charlie: Oh, interesting.

Megan: - I- I have like a bit.


Rob: Cut that, cut that, cut that, cut that.


Wait a second, don't cut that, don't cut that. Megan Ganz blames the victims.

Charlie: Feels superior to victims.

Glenn: She's-she's learning, she's learning.


Megan: Well-

Charlie: You're learning, you're learning like, "Oh yeah, yeah, yeah I wouldn't have done--"

Rob: No, I got that from a primal, like a get that primally which is like you get all survival of the fittest and you're saying, "Oh I don't wanna be murdered. I would never have made that mistake. Therefore, I'm safe, I wouldn't be murdered."

Megan: Yes, that's right.

Rob: Yeah, I get that.

Charlie: I like the detective aspect of it like-like if you listen to Serial, you've got to kind of play detective, right? You get- you started to like get all the suspects but then I always hit a moment where I'm like, "Oh men, this is somebody's real life like somebody's-

Megan: Uh-huh

Charlie: -somebody's dead and somebody's kid is dead like what the fuck.". You know, this is not my, you know, we made a joke about this later in the season where we said, "Murder is the new like-like chips." Right?

Rob: Yap.

Charlie: Right, this is not just chips for me to snack on, this is like somebody's fucking life.


Rob: Yes, it's awful.

Glenn: But also, also-

Charlie: But it's compelling, right, 'cause we're terrified.

Glenn: Well, tell your story faster, tell it faster.


Um, you shouldn't, you know what I mean, like Serial was one of those things where I was like, "Oh my god, this is like absolutely fascin-- fascinating," for about three episodes, and then I'm like, "All right, get to it, fucking wrap the shit up you fucking jerks.". It was the same way with the, uh, uh you know Making a Murderer whatever it was like, you know-

Megan: They stretched it out.

Glenn: -I don't, I just have, fuck, I can't stand it when people tell me a fucking two-hour long story in ten hours, I'm like j-just God, uh, fucking drives me crazy, man. So now, if I see like a true crime series or whatever like a thing that's like oh it's gonna, the story is gonna unfold over a-a even four episodes, if it takes you four episodes even that's too much for me. I'm like, I'll do two, I'll do two, two one-hour episodes that-- that's how much fucking time you've got to tell me the story otherwise I'm out, I'm out.

Megan: Because unlike the victim you have a life to live, you know, you've got stuff to do.

Rob: Oh God.

Charlie: Man, damn Megan.


Rob: Megan, Jesus Christ. [unintelligible 00:52:31]

Glenn: Jesus Christ. Um, I--

Megan: You guys are talking about masturbating, for like, so long but I, whatever-

Charlie: Who doesn't, when that happens, not usually-


Rob: Well, listen, there's a-- in the past in the patriarchy, in the patriarchy we talk about masturbation. In the matriarchy, you guys are conceiving very rich webs of revenge, and I-I, this is terrifying.

Megan: [laughter]

Rob: I mean listeners, creeps, and listeners, be afraid of the matriarchy because like all we wanna do is just like talk about like our dicks and masturbation and like women are out to kill.

Charlie: I wonder what percentage of our audience just masturbates to the podcast?

Megan: [laughter]

Glenn: Oh no, no.

Charlie: Oh, you know, there's probably like, one person, right, at least.

Glenn: Should we give somebody, should we give them something? Should we take our shirts off?

Megan: [laughter]

Rob: No, no.


Charlie: No, like yeah, no it's like, you know, like every time you say like the letter S or P or like you're you-you know, that kind of weird shit.

Rob: Maybe, yeah, um.

Charlie: I don't know, it's okay.

Rob: There's gonna be one- one person out there, right? With a kink-

Charlie: Can I ask you guys a question?

Rob: -on the background.

Megan: [chuckles] David Hornsby once shared a video that somebody sent to him of, I think two guys having sex and in the background was good-- a Good Girls episode that he was in, um,


just like on the TV.

Charlie: Wait a second, wait a second, wait a second, how did he get this video?

Glenn: Yeah.

Megan: I don't know but he sent it to me like a while ago. It was so funny because like the guys were like really going at it.

Glenn: You didn't ask him, how he got-- how he's found this video? [chuckles]

Charlie: Like, it was like homemade porn that someone put on the internet-

Megan: I guess.

Charlie: -and Hornsby was at the back of the shot.

Megan: Yeah, yeah, it was great. I don't know how he-- yeah I should ask him how he got it.

Charlie: We- we've discussed my Erotic Tales 4 on this podcast before, right? We did, right?

Glenn: No.

Charlie: We covered that?

Glenn: No, not on the podcast, no.

Rob: Uh-uh.

Charlie: You guys, know the story, right?

Rob: Yes

Glenn: Well, yeah, I mean, it's been a very long time since we've talked about it.

Charlie: It was one of my first, so I had an agent, like a real agent and they were sending me on things. I remember I auditioned for like, Wet Hot American Summer, and like got a couple of callbacks and I think I was in the same casting office and they had another audition, it was a short film- short movie, it was called Angela and it was starring Victor Argo or whatever, um, and basically my role was just there were two guys sitting in a bar having a conversation about sex like they had hooked up with some girl.

And Victor Argo was overhearing their conversation and he's sort of depressed about being past his sexual prime, and by the way, I don't even have the bulk of the dialogue. I think I'm just the guy like, "Uh-huh, oh wow man." Like that's like my part, and I remember I- and the director's name was like Amos Kollek or something like that, uh, Israeli director I think, and, um, I get the part and I go down the set we're filming it, shot on film, and, uh, boy this guy's up my ass like tons of notes like he's just hating my performance.

I'm like, man, I'm just sitting here going, "Uh-huh, yeah. Like I can't make this guy happy," but it's whatever. I shoot the couple of hours, they let me go. Never hear about it, movie kind of disappears, and then like a year or two or maybe even longer, might have been like five years later, it shows up in my IMDb as Erotic Tales 4 Summer of My Deflowering.


And so I guess it was kind of like softcore-ish porn like not porn but like- like a Cinemax porn.

Glenn: You didn't get the whole script, huh? They didn't give you [unintelligible 00:56:05]

Charlie: No, I just got the scene but-

Glenn: Oh boy.

Charlie: -it's no longer on there.

Rob: It's not?

Charlie: Apparently, I was cut out of the movie. I think some- some super fan had found the DVD and looked it up and, uh, and found my scene no longer exists.

Glenn: You-you ain't in it?

Charlie: No, I didn't make the cut.

Glenn: I would like to see that.

Charlie: Which I have mixed feelings about. On the one hand, I'm relieved, and on the other hand, I also would like to see the scene. [chuckles]

Glenn: Yeah, right, right, of course.

Rob: Glenn, how many times have you masturbated?

Megan: [laughter]

Glenn: I- I'm not, I'm not gonna, uh, no comment

Rob: How many times?

Charlie: You're not gonna dignify that question with a response.

Glenn: I'm not gonna dignify that.

Rob: It's between zero and?

Charlie: Daniel Day-Lewis wouldn't say, I just wanna say.

Rob: Is it between zero and--

Charlie: Daniel Day-Lewis wouldn't say.

Rob: Is it between zero and five?

Charlie: Leave the Zoom.

Rob: How long have you been there?

Charlie: I mean, the riverside.

Megan: [laughter]

Glenn: I just got, I got in last night.

Rob: Oh, so it's between one and three.

Glenn: Relax, relax.

Megan: [laughter]

Glenn: Guys, I gotta pee. Can we end this fucking thing? Jesus Christ.

Charlie: Yeah.

Megan: You guys have done it.

Glenn: We have to have done it.

Charlie: We did it.

Glenn: Well, Rob, thanks for joining us.


[End Credits]


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