Dennis and Dee Go On Welfare | Always Sunny Podcast – The Always Sunny Podcast
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Episode #10

Dennis and Dee Go On Welfare

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10. Dennis and Dee Go On Welfare

On the pod, the guys revisit Dennis and Dee Go On Welfare from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia Season 2, Episode 3.

Rob: We're all on time today.

Glenn: We're all on time.

Charlie: We're all on time, everybody.

Glenn: We're all on time. [crosstalk]

Charlie: Oh, my God, this is so exciting.

Rob: That is not that rare of a thing.

Charlie: No. [crosstalk]

Rob: We're- we're- we're a very prompt group.

Glenn: But we were very eager for one of us to be late. We-we-we were-- We were excited. We were like, giddy, about, "Oh, Glenn's in the office, but he's not in the room yet."

Charlie: We're gonna get him, we're gonna get him. [crosstalk]

Rob: It's going to happen again. There's gonna be 180 of these things, right? I mean, it's gonna happen. [crosstalk]

Glenn: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, something like that.

Charlie: Yeah.

Rob: I will never be late again.

Glenn: You think so?

Rob: Oh, I can guarantee.

Glenn: Okay, oh. Uh-ho Meghan you're hearing this? [crosstalk]

Charlie: Oh, that's a bold claim. [crosstalk]

Glenn: That is a bold claim. [crosstalk]

Charlie: That is a bold claim.

Rob: I can guarantee it. [crosstak]

Glenn: There's gotta be a small part of you that's regretting making that claim. [crosstalk]

Charlie: You can't actually--

Rob: No. [crosstalk]

Charlie: You can't actually guarantee it.

Rob: Of course not, there can be some sort of a--

Charlie: [crosstalk] How can you- how can you guarantee it? Yeah, there could be some sort of catastrophe.

Rob: [crosstalk] Some sort of earthquake, yes.

Glenn: It can be a tire situation, you know.

Charlie: [crosstalk] Yeah, speaking of catastrophes--

Rob: [crosstalk] You know what? I'll call-I'll call in a bomb threat.

[all laughing]

Rob: To Carousel. Yeah, no, I get a flat tire, then I'll just randomly, anonymously, call in a bomb threat.

Glenn: [crosstalk] To who? Who do you call?

Rob: To the people of Carousel. That's the building that-- To Jeff Luini, I'll say I'm stuck in-- "Hello, uh--"

Glenn: Oh, yeah, no, do it. What, what, yes, yes.

Charlie: [crosstalk] Continue. Continue.

Glenn: Continue, yeah, no, sorry, who is this?

Rob: It would have to be a bad accent because you don't want them to know where you're from.

Charlie: [crosstalk] That's why it's bad.

Rob: [crosstalk] That's why it's a bad accent. Hello, uh, I was talking, uh, with Glenn Howerton--

Charlie: [crosstalk] Hello, there's a bomb in your building.

Glenn: There's two of you?

Rob: There's a bomb, oh, well, we're both late. [crosstalk]

Charlie: No, I'm calling about a different bomb.

Glenn: Why is there a child on this call?

Charlie: I'm not a child.


Rob: Guys? This episode is fantastic. I'm very happy-- I'm very pleased with our show, not this podcast.

Charlie: Yeah, I'm glad that you're enjoying the, uh, the episode now. [crosstalk]

Rob: Dennis and Dee Going on Welfare. I feel like we're really hitting our stride with the show at this point, no?

Glenn: Yeah, I would agree with you. I-I think this one, and the one just before it, The Gang Goes Jihad, are sort of really strong examples of where we were headed with the show. I mean, it's one of the first with- with The Gang Goes on Welfare, uh, yeah, it star-it really starts to feel like the show, in-in many ways, to me.

Charlie: There were aspects of this episode that I felt though, we were getting too hard into displaying that these characters are awful people. Like-like that-that--

Glenn: Yes.

Rob: What do you mean. Oh, like the bathroom scene?

Charlie: Yes. Like the bathroom scene.

Rob: But, see-- Okay, so one of the things I will say, you're probably wrong about that, cause it's-- It is very, very despicable. One of the things that I like about that is that-- It- it's that first taste of, like, the characters just being so completely and totally oblivious. Not only oblivious to their behavior, but actually thinking that they're the opposite, you know what I mean? Like, you guys are literally saying, like, "We're good guys," I'm a good guy, we're good guys, we're good people and then you just spray her in the face. You're not doing it on purpose but you're oblivious to the fact that you've done that.

Charlie: Yeah, I-I don't mind it, like, um, in terms of what we're going for, I just felt like the execution was like-- It's, like, too on the nose. Like that- that's-- It's, like, too obvious.

Rob: [crosstalk] I-I hear you, but I can't tell you how many times-- I posted something, I think I talked about in the last-- Two podcasts ago, where I said something to the effect of-- Somebody said to me that they don't like my show-they don't like the show-- My shows. Talking about Mythic Quests and Sunny, because they can't tell who the good people are and who the bad people are.

Charlie: Which is hilarious.

Rob: Okay, so I just-- I posted that on- on Twitter, and it got like a massive response, which was great, because it was generally from the people who like-- You know, the people who follow you on Twitter, the people who like your shows.

Glenn: Right.

Rob: And- and yeah, there were a lot of-- A lot, like, maybe thousands of people, who were saying things like, "I didn't get Sunny at first, until I understood what you were doing." Now, to us, It was, like, so obvious. We felt like we were making it so obvious on the very beginning, but I think it takes a little getting used to.

Charlie: Yeah. Yeah, that's fair.

Rob: And I think episodes like this, where you're like, it's so-- We lean into it so heavily, that these people are so cruel. To the point where, like-- I think my favorite part of the episode, which is so on the nose, is when Frank says, "I don't--" He's talking to the "slaves," and says, "Wait a second, you don't drink. You work hard, how did you get into the position you're in?"

Glenn: [crosstalk] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Charlie: Yeah.

Rob: [crosstalk] And when she tries to an-- She goes to answer him, and he goes, "Hold on, honey," and then turns around, I'm like, "Okay," I feel like at this point, what we're-- We're basically saying exactly what the show is. And it might be a little heavy-handed, but I think maybe--

Charlie: That, I didn't mind so much. That- that joke, I feel like it's a little more subtle. There was just, like, one or two where I was like, "Alright, this is-- We're leaning so hard into it," but look, overall, I loved the episode. These are little things, but from a production value standpoint, I really love the episode. Like, having Dennis and Dee on that stoop in Philly, the scene where they go to buy crack, that- that street, how- how authentically Philly those scenes are.

Rob: Half the episode was shot in Philly.

Charlie: Yeah.

Rob: Look at how many scenes were shot exterior Philly.

Charlie: And it's a little bit of a disservice to the show when we don't do that but, you know, it got more difficult as we got kids and family.

Rob: What do you mean? We do do that.

Charlie: Right. Right.

Rob: We do.

Charlie: Oh, sorry. Yeah, you guys do it.

Rob: This was the first episode-- I remember pitching it to, uh, FX. This was the first time I remember pitching this, where they- where they, uh, said "Mm, I-- We don't know about this."

Glenn: Really? What was their issue with it?

Rob: [crosstalk] Even in the first season, where we changed-- We talked about this already, where we changed the, um, priest to the gym teacher, they were still into the storyline. This one, when-- I remember, very distinctively being in Venice, at the apartment that you and I shared in Venice.

Glenn: Mm-hmm.

Rob: Not Italy. Venice, California.

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: Muscle Bea-- Home of Muscle Beach. Um, and I pitched it to Nick Brad, who's our executive, and I said, "I think we're gonna get Dennis and Dee addicted to crack." He was like, "Nah, man. Nah, you guys-- You can't do that." And I'm like, "Why not? Let me explain to you why," and then I explained to him why, and he's like, "Well, now you definitely can't do it." And I was like, "No, no, we're gonna do it, we're going to do it," and he's like, "I don't think you should do it." And then we wound up writing the script, and it was-- And it just worked, and it was so funny, and they let us do it.

Glenn: I mean, I've talked to numerous people, who said early on-- You know, I'm talking about, like, when we were in season five or six, or seven, and they were telling me-- "My buddies and I are super into the show. I started watching it and I showed them the show, and then they got into it." I would always ask, "What episode did you show them to get them into the show?" And more often than not, it was this episode, it was The Gang Goes on Welfare. I'm not totally sure why. It must have been something-- That episode, I think, was the first episode to really strike a chord with people, and hook people.

Rob: Well, how about- how about this, like-- Right in the very beginning, Dennis and Dee say we have dreams, we're gonna go pursue them, and here's how we're gonna go do it. And then Dee says, "I'm going to sign us up for employment benefits."

Glenn: Right.

Rob: And then Dennis was just like, "No, no, no, come on, let's go. We're gonna follow our dreams," and then you find out that you're getting $400 a week, that's more than you made at the bar, right?

Glenn: Mm-hmm.

Rob: So this is literally something that the country is struggling with, right now. That the minimum wage is so low, and the cost of living is so high, and that right now, even though we're coming out of the pandemic, people don't want to go back to work, because their unemployment benefits are higher than the minimum wage.

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: So this is literally something that we're still continuing to struggle with.

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: And- and this-- And the shift that they're talking about later, when Maria starts to try to explain it to Frank, and Frank doesn't want to hear it, is like exactly what the show is.

Glenn: Right, right. Right. It's a shame too, because I thought we'd solved it. I thought we'd solved it.

Rob: We solved it on Sunny, yeah, definitely.

Glenn: [crosstalk] You know what I think? We did solve-- We solved the Korea situ-- No, we didn't, did we? Dammit, we haven't solved-- Have we solved anything?

Charlie: Well, he died. The guy died.

Glenn: There's still unknown in there. There's always gonna be a unknown.

Charlie: I feel like this was the first time we nail-- we really nailed going to the title, where the going to the title was such- such a good joke. Don't worry about us, we're gonna be just fine, being Dennis and Dee Go on Welfare. That was the first time we really--

Rob: [crosstalk] I remember you telling me Jimmy Simpson reached out to you and told- and told you that. And Mike said that he, like, laughed out loud. I remember you telling me that and being like, "That's a high bar. Cause Jimmy is a tough critic for comedy." I remember he, like, reached out to you and said that he laughed out loud.

Charlie: Oh, really? Oh, that's great, that's good.

Rob: That's awesome, yeah.

Charlie: And the guest cast is so good.

Rob: Yeah, yeah.

Charlie: Like, all the guest cast is so good in this episode. The woman who play-- The woman at the welfare store--

Glenn: Aisha Heins.

Rob: Aisha Heins is so good. [crosstalk]

Charlie: Aisha Heins is great.

Rob: Uh, every time she pops up in something, I get excited. She's such a great actress, um, yeah, she's- she's great in the episode, I love how real she played-- My favorite thing when our-- Is when our guest cast comes in and just plays a very real, grounded person, that is encountering maniacs.

Glenn: And can still make it funny.

Rob: And can still make it funny. Yeah, and there are very few actors, weirdly, that can do that, that can play it straight, play it real, play it grounded. And yet, what-- And- and understand that what's funny about it is their reaction to the insanity that's being displayed in front of them. And you know, it's so funny because, you know, a lot of comic actors want to come in and, like, make it funny. And it's like, no, no, no, no, it will be funny if you just react honestly to the insanity that's -- That you're- that you're witnessing.

Charlie: Yeah, but it helps if you're a person whose honest reaction looks funny. You know, like, like, like, there's a version of that same woman, who- who plays that part, and does it totally honestly, but doesn't have-- It ain't funny. [crosstalk]

Glenn: It ain't funny. And yet, Aisha's performance is very, very funny.

Charlie: It's knowing how long to pause before you react to the line, and it's all that kind-- It's, like, the timing.

Glenn: Well, like, her reaction to, um-- Her reaction to Dee grabbing the pen is- is very fun-- Is very real, very funny, and I, you know, that was-- I don't think that was a scripted moment. I think it just happened, and she reacted that way 'cause she is funny.

Charlie: Here's the thing that stood out to me. So, when we asked for the book of- of people's images, and it's called a Facebook.

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: Yeah.

Charlie: Did we invent Facebook? [laughs]

Glenn: No.

Rob: No. What?

Charlie: We didn't in--

Glenn: No, it'd already been invented, but, uh, we didn't know about-- I, certainly, did not know that-- I'd never heard of Facebook at that time, so that was a purely-- that had nothing to do with Facebook, for me.

Rob: No, it had to do with a facebook, and that's how they came up [crosstalk]-

Charlie: [crosstalk] A book of faces.

Rob: -that's how they came up with the name of the company. [crosstalk]

Glenn: That's right, yeah. Right.

Rob: So we were using it the way that people traditionally have been using that word, and so did Zuck.

Glenn: Zuck. Yeah.

Rob: Zuck.

Charlie: Yeah. But I think we might have some legal recourse here, if we take this scene to- to a court of law and say, "We had it first." We might have some Winklevoss kind of money coming our way.

Glenn: Winklev-- Yes, Winklevoss. Winklevoss. Correct. [crosstalk]

Charlie: Some Winklevossian money coming our way.

Glenn: [laughs] Winklevossian?

Rob: I would say that probably the second- the second, uh, or maybe- maybe third most popular meme from our show comes from this particular episode.

Glenn: The Biz Markie Stoop?

Rob: No-no. No.

Glenn: Okay.

Charlie: Really?

Rob: Can you- can you guess? Well, maybe I'm wrong. I coul- I could be wro-- I could be wrong but what I've seen--

Glenn: Well, you guys in the top hats, I've seen that a lot. You guys in the top hats--

Charlie: [crosstalk] Crying.

Rob: Yeah, crying.

Glenn: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rob: Yeah. Cry-crying at the- at the end. Yeah, I--

Glenn: Yeah, I have seen that pop up quite a few times.

Charlie: There's the shots of, uh, Pat's and Geno's famous, uh, steak-- cheese steak, uh, Philly cheese steak places. Um, never again after season two, right? We had a little bit of it in season one and season two, seeing those locations, and then we're like, "Nah," after that.

Rob: I don't know. I feel like maybe we went back. No, maybe not.

Glenn: Can I- Can I confess something to you guys?

Charlie: Go ahead.

Rob: Oh, God.

Glenn: I've never had a cheese steak.

Rob: Yeah.

Charlie: Yeah, we know.

Glenn: I've never had one.

Rob: We know. We know.

Glenn: From anywhere.

Rob: We know.

Charlie: Yeah, we know.

Glenn: Well, what do mean you know?

Charlie: What is it? The nitrates? What's- what's- what's holding you back?

Glenn: [chuckles] The nitrates. I don't know what a nitrate is. I'll be honest. I don't know what that is either.

Charlie: Delicious.

Glenn: It's deliciousness?

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: Um, no, at the time-- Uh, well, when we were going to Philly a lot, like in those early seasons, um, and- and ge-- We were near those, uh, steak place-- Uh, steak sandwich.

What are they called?

Charlie: You weren't eating in season two, though, right?

Rob: No, you weren't eating. You weren't eating food.

Charlie: You were off food.

Glenn: Come on, guys.

Charlie: You were on some-- [laughs]

Glenn: Come on, guys. [crosstalk] No, I didn't eat--

Rob: You were- you were eating pepper, and honey.

Charlie: Yeah, you were having, uh, pepper, water, honey.

Glenn: Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, you guys, I did them-- Okay, let's talk about that. Let's get into it. I did the master cleanse, biggest mistake in my life. What an- what an absolute gut destroyer that was. It was just awful. An awful experience through and through, and I wish I hadn't done it. Anyone who's thinking about doing the master cleanse, which is the lemon, uh--

Charlie: Don't get sued. Don't get sued by the master.

[all laughing]

Glenn: Oh, the master. Um, yeah, i-i-it's the lemon, uh, God, what is it? Paprika?

Charlie: It's nothing. It's starving yourself.

Glenn: It's lemon. It's-it's-it's-it's-

Rob: I can remember what it was.

Glenn: It's hot powder and- and ho-- And honey.

Rob: Honey, yeah.

Glenn: No, no, maple syrup, maple syrup. And, yeah--

Rob: Yeah, paprika. That was the big one.

Glenn: And you just eat that all day long. Eat it. [chuckles] Uh, and, uh, it's awful, and it absolutely destroyed my, uh, my intestines, for about a year. Um, I also lost way too much weight and looked so skinny in season two because I did it, right? But I did it-- I did it when-- While we were writing season two, which was also just torture.

Charlie: Yeah.

Rob: Yeah.

Glenn: Torture. Oh, God. Just don't do the master cleanse. I heard somebody saying they were going to do the master cleanse the other day, and I'm like, "What year is it? No."

Charlie: [crosstalk] We played- We played, uh, like, uh, a baseball game, like, uh, a group of us for-- I think it was my bachelor party.

Glenn: Yes, it was.

Charlie: And--

Glenn: Was I still-- Was I on the cleanse?

Charlie: You were on the cleanse, and we did, like, shirts and skins, uh, or something, with the teams. And when you popped your shirt off, we did shirt, skins, and bones.

[all laughing]

Charlie: It was like playing baseball with a skeleton, and, uh, I was concerned.

Glenn: [laughs]

Charlie: But you bounced back. You bounced back.

Rob: We wound- we wound up writing that into a whole episode, didn't we?

Glenn: Yeah, we did.

Charlie: [crosstalk] In the miracle episode, it's faint.

Rob: You were insisting that you felt great.

Glenn: I did. No, but I did, I actually did. [crosstalk]

Rob: Yeah, you were like, "Ah guys, I feel great." [crosstalk]

Glenn: -I actually did. No, no, no, but I would go through periods of extreme euphoria, uh, on that- on that-- Let's call it a diet. Um, there were certain times of the day where I was really hungry, like in the morning, and like--

Charlie: [chuckles] Afternoon, evening.

Glenn: [laughs] Yeah. [crosstalk]

Rob: And then you would hallucinate.

Glenn: I wasn't hallucinating. Uh, it did sustain-- I mean, it does sustain you, like, in a weird way, uh, you know? And-and-and-- I mean, I'm telling you, like, I-I think anyone

who's fasted for a long period of time can tell you, like, there- there's periods of, like, real euphoria. I mean, uh, so in a way, I did actually feel amazing. Um, there was-- it was only--

Charlie: That's your body's defense mechanism to make dying not as bad.

[all laughing]

Glenn: It's possible.

Charlie: It's like- it's like, let's- let's-- "Fuck, I'm dying. All right, give the guy some euphoria before this is all over."

Glenn: [laughs] Yeah.

Charlie: Maybe making him-- Okay, if we give him a little euphoria, he'll think that living is good, and he'll eat something.

Rob: [laughs] Yeah.

Glenn: [chuckles] Right, right. Life's worth living.

Charlie: Remember how fun living was?

Glenn: I do-I do remember the very first thing I had was, like, a handful of-- Like, just a couple of, like, almonds. [laughs] I had, like, a couple of almonds, like, when I was coming-- Because you have to ease yourself off of it. I did it for 10 days.

Charlie: And you orgasmed.

[all laughing]

Glenn: No. I mean, I-I literally got so high off those almonds. It was absolutely insane. And then I had vegetable broth after that, and I was so fucking high off of that. It was- it was unreal, man. It was incredible. Oh, guys. Don't ever do it. Don't do it. [crosstalk]

Charlie: How did we get into that? [crosstalk]

Glenn: There's no reason for it. [crosstalk]

Charlie: How did we segue into that at all?

Glenn: I don't know. We were talking about something that I actually wanted to talk about, and then, you know--

Charlie: Sorry.

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: But that's it. You were saying you never had a cheese steak.

Charlie: Oh, that's what it was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [crosstalk]

Glenn: I've never had a cheese steak. Yeah. Well, at the time- at the time, it was because I-I wasn't eating red meat. I didn't eat red meat for a very long time, like, for like, I don't know, 13, 14 years.

Rob: Yeah, we-- We know.

Glenn: Well, yes. But this isn't for you, you fucking idiot.

Rob: You said, "Guys, I have to make an-- I have to make a-a--"

Glenn: No, I said, "Guys, I have to make an infession-- confession. I'd never had a cheese steak."

Rob: Yeah, to me and Charlie. You're saying that to me and charlie.

Glenn: I've never told you guys I've never had a cheese-- How do you know in the last-- I started eating red meat again, like, seven or eight years ago. How the fuck do you know I haven't had a cheesesteak between now and then?

Rob: I can- I can surmise, based on knowing you for the last 17 years that you've never had a cheese steak. [crosstalk]

Glenn: You guys are acting like you've never seen me eat, like, a breakfast burrito, or a big pasta dish or, like, French fries. I eat that shit all the time.

Charlie: That's true. You're back on it, and it's encouraging to see. It's encouraging to see.

Rob: [crosstalk] That's true, but I can still guess, if you-- if you laid out 10 things- if you laid out 10 things, like 10 shit foods, okay? And I can-- A-And I know that you do eat some shit food from time to time, I bet you I could pick out which shit food you did eat and which you didn't.

Glenn: Okay.

Charlie: What's scary about Rob is, I feel like he knows shit about you or me better than we know about ourselves. Like, he's- like he's- like he's spying on us, in a way. [laughs] Like he's--

Glenn: Are you spying on us?

Charlie: Yeah, are you spying on us? [crosstalk]

Rob: I'm collecting information, that I can use to lev--

Charlie: [crosstalk] Yeah, he's collecting--

Glenn: [crosstalk] You're so weird.

Rob: [crosstalk] I just notice.

Glenn: [crosstalk] You're so weird.

Rob: [crosstalk] I notice what you eat and what you don't eat.

Charlie: You notice things that maybe the other person cannot.

Glenn: [crosstalk] God. Get off me, you creep.

[all laughing]

Glenn: Jesus Christ. That's so creepy.

Charlie: [crosstalk] He's creeping on us all day, over here.

Glenn: Fuck, I didn't realize you were so creepy. How did I not realize this until just now? You're so creepy. You're creepy. Get out of here. [laughs]

Rob: Name a junk food-- No, we'll-we'll come up with a list, off the air.

Glenn: You know what? I bet-- I-I will-- To give you credit, I-I-I would- I would guess that you'd probably be right 9 out of 10 times, the things that I would have versus the things that I wouldn't have, you know, based on conversations we've had, and you seeing my food preferences, and certain things where I'm like, "Ew, you know, that's kind of gross and that-- Whereas this is okay.''

Charlie: Salad from a meal delivery service. Yes. McDonald's cheeseburger. No. Like, some things are very-

Rob: Cheeseburger from a certain kind of restaurant? Yes.

Glenn: Right.

Charlie: Oh.

Glenn: Cheeseburger from another kind of restaurant--

Rob: No.

Charlie: No.

Glenn: No.

Charlie: And that's, I think, how most people eat food.

Glenn: Yeah. And really not--

[all laughing]

Glenn: Yeah. But you know what's like-- Yeah, whatever. Guys, Ugh.

Rob: This, it-it-it hit a nerve.

Glenn: No, no, no. It's just that, you know, I-I just don't-- [laughs] I don't like being portrayed as somebody who, like, literally never eats delicious food. I-I-I don't like that.

Charlie: No, but you are more exacting and particular about your food than- than most people I know.

Glenn: [crosstalk] That's true. Oh, without a doubt. Without a doubt. No, I- I try to follow, like-- It's like the 90-10 rule. 90% of the time, I eat extremely healthy, and I don't eat for joy at all, and don't really particularly enjoy what I'm eating. Uh, I eat it purely for health reasons. And then the other 10% of the time, I kinda eat whatever the fuck I want. And I-I-I think it's pretty good. Look, my doctor says my numbers look good. That's all I know.

Charlie: [crosstalk] You got your numbers good and that's--

Glenn: [crosstalk] I'm gonna to live forever. 90% Of the time, it's gonna be miserable, but I'm gonna live forever.

Charlie: But 10% of the time-- You'll enjoy- you'll enjoy 10% of your life, and--

Glenn: By the way, that 10% that I'm eating whatever the fuck I want, I guarantee you, I enjoy it most-- More than most people. Because I've deprived myself the other 90% of the time.

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: Well, why don't you get it down to like 60-40, then you can enjoy 40% of your life.

Glenn: But then my numbers are gonna go down.

Rob: Not necessarily. My numbers are fine. I eat whatever the fuck I want.

Glenn: [crosstalk] I bet you- I bet you, they're not. I bet your numbers aren't great.

Rob: But I go to a real doctor.

Glenn: Yeah, so do I.

Rob: You go to a doctor somewhere who- who te-- Who tests for things that don't even exist.

Glenn: Wrong. Wrong. I go to- I go to a- a Western Medicine guy-- A Western Medicine doctor.

Charlie: Well, let's compare numbers.

Rob: That's what we should do.

Glenn: That's what we should do. Let's grab our sheets. Let's grab our graphs and our charts, and let's compare our blood, urine, and feces.

Rob: [laughs] You'll have to go to a neutral source, right? [crosstalk]

Glenn: Third party, to interpret the numbers.

Rob: I don't trust Glenn's doctor, whether he says it's Western or not.

Glenn: Oh, you think he's working the number?

Rob: West of what?

Glenn: You think he's working the numbers?

Rob: Like, I got-- West of what? [crosstalk]

Charlie: West of Highland Boulevard.

[all laughing]

Glenn: [laughs] If you go far enough west- If you go far enough west, you'll definitely end up in the east.

Charlie: You'll meet in the back east, yeah. [laughs]

Rob: [laughs]


Glenn: Guys, let's talk about the vig. Um--

Charlie: Yes. Uh-huh. Mm-hmm.

Glenn: Uh, do you guys know what a vig-- Well, hold on. I-I-I-- Charlie.

Charlie: Hm?

Glenn: your character doesn't know what a vig is.

Charlie: Mm-hmm.

Glenn: Do you know what a vig is?

Charlie: To this day, I-I don't know. I've heard--

Glenn: [crosstalk] You don't totally know what a vig is.

Charlie: I've- I've forgotten. I think maybe around the time we did the episode, we learned it, understood it, and then I-- You know, that- that goes under deleted files for me.

Glenn: Right. We were all still watching the Sopranos at the time, so that was fresh in our heads. [crosstalk]

Charlie: Yeah, what is it again?

Rob: It's- it's the interest, that you pay on a loan.

Charlie: The interest that you're paying on the illegal loan you've taken.

Rob: It's short for vigorish. Yeah. So you- you buy--

Glenn: It's short for what?

Rob: Vigorish.

Glenn: Now, that I didn't know.

Rob: Yeah. It's some-

Glenn: Vigorish?

Rob: -some gumball word. Yeah. You- you borrow money from somebody on the street, like a gangster.

Glenn: Vigorish? Shut the fuck up. It's not short for vigorish.

Rob: Fact check, Megan, the way we'd fact check.

Glenn: Vigorish?

Rob: Yeah.

Charlie: I'm going to give you a loan. It's going to be a bit vigorish.

[all laughing]

Glenn: What's the vigorish on this loan? [crosstalk]

Rob: What's the licorice? Uh, yeah, and then you pay, and then usually it's like, uh, 10 points, which is like 10%. And then you don't have to pay back the ca-- You don't have to pay back the principle. You just have to pay back the 10 point. You borrow $100, and each week you could pay back 10.

Glenn: Oh.

Rob: And-- But that's on top of the 100. [crosstalk]

Glenn: So as long as you stay on top-- Well, so vigorish is just interest.

Rob: It's just interest. That's all it is.

Glenn: Sort of. I mean, I guess it's different from interest in-- So far as it's not on the up and up.

Megan: Vigorish.

Glenn: Vigorish.

Rob: Mm.

Glenn: Nice work. How did you know that?

Rob: Gangster stuff. I'm into gangster stuff-

Glenn: Oh, yeah?

Rob: -I knew about all that shit.

Glenn: What do you mean? Like, uh, you've read books about, like, the ma- the mafia. [crosstalk]

Rob: I'm literally in the middle of-of-of, uh-- In the middle of another gangster book. I just love it. I don't know why. It's, like, a fascinating subject to me.

Glenn: You should make a gangster show.

Rob: There're so many good ones that have already been done. I can't do it like that.

Charlie: Are you allowed to make a gangster show?

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: Yeah.

Glenn: What do you mean?

Charlie: Like an Irish-- You could do an Irish gangster. [crosstalk]

Glenn: Irish gangster show. [crosstalk]

Charlie: Irish gangsters.

Rob: No, I couldn't.

Charlie: You couldn't? Could you do the show about the Italian mom? [crosstalk]

Rob: Yeah. Well, um--

Charlie: No, I don't know. I don't know.

Glenn: I don't know.

Charlie: [crosstalk] I don't think you could.

Glenn: Yeah, I don't know. I don't even think you can do that, what you just did.

Megan: [chuckles]

Charlie: I'm Italian. I can do it.

Glenn: No, you're not.

Rob: You can't do it.

Charlie: Yes, I am.

Glenn: You're 25%.

Charlie: No, half. Can't take my fucking family heritage away from me.

Glenn: He's 25- He's 25.

Rob: He's trying to take your heritage away from you.

Glenn: He's 25.

Charlie: He's trying to take my heritage away, and we've- we've stopped that. We've stopped saying-

Glenn: You guys, uh, Charlie's- Charlie's last name, Day, uh, I believe was, originally, Del Giorno.

Rob: Yeah.

Charlie: Don't dig up my grandfather and strip him of his name. [crosstalk]

Glenn: No, hold on a second. I'm serious, though. It really wa- It really was. That- that sounded like a joke 'cause it sounds like [crosstalk]--

Charlie: Del Giorno.

Glenn: It sounds like the kind of pizza you would have in your freezer. But this was your actual family last name, Del Giorno.

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: Uh, Charlie, I thought you were 25% Italian.

Charlie: [crosstalk] No. Yeah, you're right. A quarter. A quarter.

Glenn: [laughs] Uh, I'm 25% Jewish. So--

Rob: So, there you go.

Charlie: Oh.

Glenn: So I can drop a hard J whenever I want, I think.

Charlie: I think.

Glenn: Um, another iconic moment from this show that comes up a lot is us s-singing Biz Markie, rest in peace.

Rob: RIP.

Glenn: Um, on the show-- Now, I remember very distinctly, uh, when I first heard that song, when I was in elementary school, and it blew my mind.

Charlie: It was a fantastic song.

Glenn: I had never heard anything like that, in my entire life. I guess I don't know that anything- anything even close to that had ever been done before. Like, it was like a- it was like a pop song, but also rap.

Rob: It also would've felt like he had a speech impediment-

Charlie: You know-

Glenn: Well, he probably did.

Rob: -or something.

Glenn: Did he not? [crosstalk]

Charlie: -maybe it was one of the first times that a mainstream audience was being introduced to someone who was sort of half rapping, half singing.

Glenn: Yeah, half rapping, half singing, and-and-and in a very pop-songy kind of way.

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: Yeah, it was very unique, and it--

Charlie: It's a great song.

Glenn: Uh, it's a great fucking song. It holds up, and, uh, and that's why we put it in the show.

Rob: Well, I-I like that, uh, you were singing it, and you guys were on the same page, and then it's just very stereotypically our show, where you were then giving her notes. You were telling her that she was a little too high-

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: -right? Like- like the characters can't just enjoy [crosstalk]. Yeah.

Glenn: Can't just do a thing.

Charlie: Oh, you mean as the characters?

Rob: Yeah, as the characters.

Charlie: Oh, yeah.

Rob: Maybe also in real life, but he was playing as the character.

Glenn: I remember us getting in a really stupid fight, in the ending. [crosstalk]

Charlie: Okay, here we go. Here we go. [crosstalk]

Rob: Charlie said don't call 'em fights. He said call 'em creative--

Charlie: Well, was it a fight, or was it a creative disagreement?

Glenn: I don't know. It was a- It was a creative argument. It was a creative argument. Um, do you guys remember, uh, let me see if I can tea you guys up for this. So, there's a moment where, uh-- Dee and I are waking up after binging on crack. Um, by the way, I don't know why we were so strung out on two rocks of crack cocaine. It makes no sense, but whatever. Let's move past that. Um, anyway, we're super strung out, and, uh, we wake up in the morning, and the alarm clock goes off. Do you remember the argument that we had about the alarm clock going off?

Rob: Yeah.

Glenn: You do?

Rob: I think so.

Glenn: Wait, wait, hold on. Okay, before you say it. [crosstalk]

Rob: I-I think so. Yeah, I'm not going to say it with certainty, but I do believe I do. [crosstalk]

Glenn: All right. All right. Do you remember what it was?

Charlie: I would- would say it's got something to do with the-- With my--

Glenn: [chuckles]

Charlie: I could be way off. I feel like maybe Rob and I liked the idea of putting that rooster and the ring-

Glenn: [laughs] Yes.

Charlie: -and the Hawaiian song in there, and you did it.

Glenn: Yes. Okay. No. W-what I liked was-- I wanted the Hawaiian song, and either the rooster or the alarm sound, but not both. I was like, "I'm cool with the rooster and the Hawaiian music. I'm cool with the alarm going off and the rooster--Uh, I'm sorry. The alarm going off and the Hawaiian song." What made no sense to me was the roo-the rooster and the alarm clock sound, 'cause there's no alarm clock in the world that you can set to rooster and the bell.

Rob: Let's fact-check that. Let's fact that-- No, I'm sure we can find something like that. [crosstalk]

Glenn: No, this would be in 2006- [crosstalk]

Charlie: You know what's funny?

Glenn: -So, it's gotta be up to 2006. [crosstalk]

Charlie: That's not an argument. That's a creative disagreement. And I'll-- It's funny to look back on that and be like, "God, that doesn't matter at all."

Rob: Oh, no. Who cares. [crosstalk]

Glenn: No, it doesn't. I-It doesn't, but--

Charlie: Like, some of these arguments move the needle, that one does not.

Rob: Well, I got a surprise for you guys, uh, that, um-- Well, I was waiting for it to be a surprise, but it might just be fun to expose it here-

Glenn: Guys, I'm not going to lie. I'm very excited right now. [crosstalk]

Rob: -on the podcast.

Glenn: A surprise?

Rob: Yeah. Um, we have an episode this year. I'm not gonna give anything away, but our characters wake up together after a very long, hard night. If you recall the episode that we shot, maybe, four weeks ago.

Charlie: Uh-huh.

Rob: I saw a cut of the episode, as did Charlie, we gave notes.

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: And then I had an idea, and so I asked the editor to put in-- I said, "Can you, you go back? We did an episode called Dennis and Dee Go on Welfare.

Glenn: [crosstalk] Don't you dare. Don't you dare.

Rob: Uh--

Charlie: Can you put the rooster in the alarm clock? [laughs]

Rob: [crosstalk] Can you put the rooster in the alarm clock? So let's see--

Glenn: Are you fucking kidding me? [crosstalk]

Charlie: I'm excited to see that in the cut. [crosstalk]

Rob: Well, we didn't lock the episode. I just wanted to see if you guys liked it and thought it was funny.

Charlie: My gut instinct on hearing you pitch that is that-- All feels, though. I'll be more on Glenn's side in this moment, where we're like, "Well, in- in the Dennis and Dee's-"

Glenn: [crosstalk] Where's-- Is there a rooster? Where's the rooster coming from? There's no rooster.

Charlie: The roo-the rooster you could chalk up to score like, uh [crosstalk]--

Glenn: Score? What are we, a fucking cartoon character?

Rob: This is the argument we were having.

Glenn: I know.

Rob: We were saying, "Maybe it's score. Maybe it's not source." Because, by the way, why would-- How about this? 'Cause this doesn't even make any sense. Why would you set an alarm clock? [crosstalk]

Glenn: You don't score. A score is music, not sound effects.

Charlie: No, it could be, uh--

Rob: It could be whatever the fuck you want.

Charlie: It could be terrible records--

Glenn: [makes funny noises] We should just wake up to that.

Charlie: By the way, no, we do-- We've done swooshes. We've done- We've done gongs. [crosstalk]

Rob: We've done gongs. That-- We'll get into that. [crosstalk]

Charlie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Rob: That was- That was racist. [crosstalk]

Charlie: That was racist.

Rob: That's just straight-up racist.

Glenn: Why?

Rob: A gong is an instrument that's only used traditionally. We'll get into that later. [crosstalk]

Charlie: You don't gotta use the gong.

Rob: But I'll go you one further. It does-- It actually has to be score, in the episode. It doesn't make se-- In the-- In-in Dennis and Dee Go on Welfare, it doesn't make any sense. Why would you guys set an alarm clock to go off at four o'clock in the afternoon? You would have set it off to- You would have set it to go off at 9:00 AM, so that you didn't over-- Charlie: Oversleep. [crosstalk]

Rob: Oversleep.

Glenn: No, that's not score, that's a mistake. Because there's an actual alarm bell that we are waking up to-

Charlie: Ring. Ring. Ring. Ring. Ring. Ring. Ring.

Glenn: -and a rooster. [crosstalk]

Charlie: And yes. But you could also--

Glenn: And you guys were like, "Let's put in on. Well, like, let's add five other funny fucking noises in there, to make it even funnier.''

Charlie: [crosstalk] You could chalk it up to-to the-- That, um, that they set it for the wrong, uh-

Glenn: Wrong time.

Charlie: -wrong time.

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: Because they were on crack. [crosstalk]

Rob: This is probably exactly the conversation we had. [crosstalk]

Charlie: They were on crack.

Glenn: Meant to wake up at, uh, you know, uh, 6:00 AM.

Charlie: I would make the argument that sometimes things don't have to be logical. They have to be, like, visceral. They just have to make you feel something, and if, like, the feel of it works, then great, it works. And, like, the logic of it, uh, you know, that's for someone else to decide.

Glenn: Okay.

Rob: We do- we do that all the time, where we're like, "Well, this feels so broad to me.'' And you're like, "Motherfucker, yesterday, we just--'' you know.

Glenn: I know. No, there's no-- Yeah-- no. [crosstalk]

Rob: There's no barometer for it. [crosstalk]

Charlie: There's no rhyme or reason. [crosstalk]

Glenn: No, no. It's either funny or it isn't. [crosstalk]

Charlie: There's no playbook. [crosstalk]

Glenn: It's either funny or it isn't to us, and that's- that's all it is. Um, you know--

Charlie: Like, there was a scene, I think it's coming up, uh, and, uh, we'll get this episode, where Mack is constantly stopping the door that, um, Barbara is trying to shut on him.

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: And Rob, I remember you and I in the mix, building out the sound of, like-- We're-- We basically said, like, there's a-- There's, like, an-- A doorbell, and maybe some jingle bells on a wreath, or something on the store, which you never see. But we layered in so many sounds, because we're like, "It just doesn't have that--"

Glenn: [crosstalk] You wanted it to have the impact of him stopping the door. You wanted this-- Him stopping the door to feel more harsh and strange-

Charlie: Impactful. Yeah.

Glenn: -and like, yeah.

Rob: It's the same, uh, instinct that everybody has. E-e-e-every fucking television show and movie that's ever been made over on-- In over the last 100 years, when somebody's sipping through a straw-

Glenn: [crosstalk] Oh God, that drives me crazy.

Rob: -there, that you hear the ice sound, every- every single time. You hear it, like, the end of the drink. [crosstalk]

Glenn: The drink of the drink. No matter where they are in the drink, it's-- [slurps]

Rob: Yep.

Glenn: I'm like, "You motherfucker, that drink is full."

Rob: You just wanted some life and sound to it-

Glenn: I hate it so much. I hate it. [crosstalk]

Rob: -and then the other one is the- is the one that we have fought against, yet we still have used it, because it's effective, is the fucking feedback from a microphone. Like, as if-

Glenn: Oh, yeah. [crosstalk]

Rob: -no one's ever used a microphone ever in their life, they have no idea, there's always feedback.

Glenn: If you don't know what you're doing when you- when you- when you, uh, you know, get- get up close to a microphone, it will- it will-- Apparently, it will go-- [squeaks]

Rob: Yeah.

Glenn: Only if you don't know what you're doing.

Rob: They're like, "Oh, oh God." They go up to the microphone, you hear-- [squeaks]

Glenn: Yeah, yeah.

Rob: "Oh, I didn't-- I have never-- I don't know how to use a microphone." It's not that I don't know how to use it. It's that the microphone doesn't know how to use itself.

Glenn: Right.

Charlie: No, it's man versus technology, and that- that there's comedy in the disconnect, you know, that- that we're not robots.

[all laughing]

Charlie: If you want to really get into the nuts and bolts, wires.

Glenn: Still works, I guess.

Charlie: Yeah.


Glenn: So in this episode, guys, uh, Dee is-- Her plan is to go to New York, to be on Broadway. She wants to be a Broadway actress, right? And um, you know, so we've established earlier on, that she's a struggling actor. Why? Why are you guys looking at each other?

Rob: No, I like that Charlie scratched his beard. That sounded good.

Glenn: Oh, yeah, it did sound good.

Rob: It sounded like--[scratches] I don't have that. Can you do it again?


Rob: Can you get a little closer to the mic?


I feel like that's an ASMR moment.

Glenn: Oh, that totally.

Charlie: Yeah.

Rob: Charlie scratching his beard. You can make a fortune out of that, buddy.

Glenn: Yeah, I don't know why, but yeah.

Charlie: Uh, I don't want to attract that group.

[all laughing]

Glenn: No, no. Wonder what's going on with those people?

Charlie: I don't know.

Glenn: Uh, oh God, so weird. Um, you guys were both uh, struggling actors at one point, as was I. [laughs]

Rob: Ooh.

Glenn: Okay, early.

Charlie: I don't know- I don't know if I ever really struggled.

Rob: I don't think either one-- Well--

Glenn: What did you-- You just came out hot, you- you were never struggling?

Charlie: The second I got an agent, I started working-

Glenn: Which work you started working?

Charlie: -and I have not stopped.

Glenn: Okay, when-- So, was there a time before you had an agent?

Charlie: Yes.

Rob: Yeah, you worked on the upper east side for about 33 weeks, at Rathbones, or whatever the fuck it's called.

Charlie: Yeah, I worked there, but I also worked on the Cornelius street café, also answered phones. There was a year of grinding, and then--

Glenn: Well, so that-- So okay, a year. So, what was the weird-- Like, were there-- Did you do some-- Did you have some weird jobs?

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: Yeah, go ahead.

Charlie: I answered phone for the Motown Digital Anthology. I didn't wanna use--

Glenn: What?

Charlie: So, you know-you know--

Rob: This is a-- This is brand new.

Charlie: You-- Really?

Rob: I've never heard this before.

Charlie: Oh, okay. So-so, you remember how, um.

Glenn: Oh-oh, you would call in to buy the anthology.

Charlie: Yes, it was like-- Some guy put all his money into this Motown thing-

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: -and he, you know, paid for the ad space that plays at midnight. He had about 50 people in there answering phones, and he was making a big to-do out of it. It's like, "All right, here we go. This is it. The phones are gonna be ringing off the hook any minute. The ads are going live in 3, 2, 1." Silence. Dead silence. Maybe like--

Glenn: Oh, man.

Charlie: Like, one phone, and he's like, "Is that me?" "No, that's over there." Maybe I answered 10 calls in a-- By the way, we worked all through the night. Like, uh, till, I think it was like, you know, yeah, till sunrise, almost, and uh, maybe I answered 10 calls. The guy lost his shirt. We did it for like five different nights, and I didn't want to use my real name. I don't know, it felt sad to me. So I was just like, "Hey, this is Chuck. Thanks for calling to order the- [chuckles] the Motown Digital Anthology. How can I help you?" Most of the-- Half the time, it was just people who just wanted to talk. It was so sad.

Glenn: Oh, that is weird.

Charlie: So that was a funny gig that I had.

Glenn: Speaking of, uh--

Rob: I'm so happy to hear that.

Charlie: Yeah, yeah. [crosstalk]

Glenn: A new story for you, Rob. [crosstalk]

Charlie: Yeah, yeah.

Rob: It's like a brand new story. I've never heard that before. [crosstalk]

Charlie: Okay, cool. Yeah, yeah.

Glenn: Well, good news is, it'll be new for me again in three weeks.

Charlie: Okay.

Glenn: You know, I don't delete files as quickly as Charlie does, but I do delete them.

Charlie: Yeah. Hey, have I ever told you about the time that I answered phones with the Motown Digital Anthology?

Glenn: Oh, shit. Here we go.

Charlie: Eyy, eyy, there's a- there's a good bit right there.

Glenn: Oh, yeah. That's great.

Charlie: Um, yeah.

Glenn: Char-Charlie, I got a question for you.

Charlie: Go.

Glenn: You- you hate it when people call you Chuck, or are you okay with that? [crosstalk]

Charlie: No, no. I-- yeah, I have my uh, college buddies do that.

Glenn: They call you Chuck?

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: Okay, because I kinda like Chuck.

Charlie: Yeah, sure.

Glenn: I never call you Chuck, because I think there are some Charlies who don't like to be called Chuck. [crosstalk]

Charlie: Chuck, Chaz.

Glenn: Chaz. I like that one. We call you Chaz all the time. [crosstalk]

Charlie: Charles, yeah. I like all names. [crosstalk]

Glenn: Charles.

Charlie: Mm-hmm.

Glenn: I call you Charles a lot.

Charlie: Mm-hmm.

Glenn: Yeah, I like that.

Charlie: So, it was one year in New York of, you know, really just day jobs and not working, and then--

Glenn: Any other weird ones?

Charlie: Uh, you know what's funny? Um, I got paid to play piano in a play-

Glenn: Oh.

Charlie: -and uh, [chuckles] it- it was uh, the play was at SUNY Purchase, the college, and I had a friend who was a student there.

Glenn: Yep.

Charlie: Uh, Cheryl Bowers. She's been on the show, and uh, she's married to Josh Drisko, our editor. So, uh.

Glenn: She's also been on A.P. Bio. Did you guys know that Cheryl Bowers plays my character's mother on A.P. Bio? No, because you don't watch the show. Go ahead.

Charlie: Yeah, no. So um, she was doing a play in her last semester at SUNY Purchase, and uh, she said, "Hey, we need someone who can play the piano and can act. Can you come and do an audition?" I really wasn't playing the piano that much at the time, so I went up there, and I kind of faked some stuff-

Glenn: Ooh.

Charlie: -and, uh--

Glenn: Did you wear a funny little hat?

Charlie: [laughs]

Glenn: Like a funny little bowler hat?

Charlie: I don't think so. And I got the gig, and the- and the woman paid me to do that, and uh, I commuted up there. Then I would like-- Would write some little songs for the play, and then I was also-- I had lines in the play. I remember her pulling me aside and she'd be like, "You know, you really should consider going into this music thing." [laughs] And I was like, "Ah, yeah. Well, I think I'm kinda gonna do the acting thing." She's like, "Yeah, but I don't know-"

Glenn: I wouldn't. I wouldn't. [crosstalk]

Charlie: "-the-the acting is tough."

Glenn: I wouldn't.

Charlie: It's like, "Yeah, all right. We'll see. We'll see." Um.

Rob: I'll show you.

Charlie: I'll show you all. Uh, so--

Glenn: That was exactly the kind of-- You know, it's funny, because that is the kind of thing where-- You know, a certain type of person gets that feedback and goes, "Oh, shit. Yeah. Maybe I shouldn't. Maybe I'm right." Another kind of person goes, "Oh, I'll show them. I'll show them."

Charlie: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I was in the "I'll show them" category. [crosstalk]

Glenn: Yeah, and I do think that-that-that is-- For whatever reason, when-when your reaction to something is-is that, like, it-- I think it can- it can really fuel success, right? Because you- you just-- You plow through rejection. [chuckles] You're just like, "They just don't get it. They just don't get it. Somebody's gonna get it."

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: "Somebody's gonna get it, one day."

Charlie: Yeah. I think, and then, uh, directing Beanie Baby Addiction downtown.

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: Oh, my God. [crosstalk]

Rob: [unintelligible 00:36:28]

Charlie: Which-which we talked- we talked about, I believe, on the show.

Rob: Sure, sure.

Charlie: So uh, you know, and then-- Yeah, working at restaurants, so, cobbling together money wherever I could.

Glenn: Wait, you were a waiter?

Charlie: I was a--

Glenn: A host.

Charlie: No, I was a busboy-

Glenn: Busboy?

Charlie: -at-at Rathbones. Here's another story, man. Okay, so I was working at Rathbones, It was-- What holiday? St. Patrick's day. Lots of cops, firemen, you know, that kind of thing. Um, so, I'm working. I'm- I'm there at 4:00 AM. I'm opening them-- The joint, right? And we're packed. Wall to wall, you know?

Glenn: 4:00 AM?

Charlie: No, we're not packed at 4:00 AM, but as soon as- as soon as it gets going-

Glenn: Okay.

Charlie: -the- the place is packed.

Glenn: [chuckles] I was like, "What the fuck?"

Charlie: Uh, yeah, no, I'm opening, I'm hosing down mats. I'm- I'm getting the place ready.

Glenn: Ugh.

Charlie: So- so, I'm- I'm bar backing all day, and then the guy who comes in for the second shift calls in sick, or whatever. So, I do a double.

Glenn: Mm-hmm.

Charlie: So, I work 4:00 AM to 4:00 AM, and I close like-

Glenn: Ugh.

Charlie: -close up, right? Uh, these-these-these guys, who were bartending, were making money hand over fist. I mean, it-- The place was packed. Anyway, at the end of the night, the guys go to tip- tip me out. I'm like, "Wow, I'm gonna make-- I don't know, you know, I'm gonna--" Whoa, Rob, you- you bartended. What do you think I- I-- A barback's gonna make? New York City-

Glenn: Saint Patrick's day [crosstalk]--

Rob: Yeah, well, that's [crosstalk]--

Charlie: -24 hours of working.

Rob: Oh my God. Are you-- As a barback on the Upper West Side, when I would work just like the one night shift on a Saturday, I'd come home with $400-- $400 or $500.

Charlie: Yeah.

Rob: As a barback.

Charlie: Uh.

Rob: Which means the bartenders were making 1500.

Glenn: Right.

Charlie: Yeah, I made-- I think they gave me $50.

Rob: Yeah, yeah.

Glenn: Oh, my God.

Charlie: I was so furious. I was like- like tears in my eyes furious, you know? But I didn't say anything at the time. I was just like, "O-o-okay," and I'm going home on the subway and, like, thinking about, like, "Oh, what am I going do?" Then I was like, "All right, here's what I'm going do. I'm gonna go back up there. I'm gonna throw a brick through the glass window."

Glenn: You were gonna take it out on the entire organization.

Charlie: Yeah, instead, I just never went back to work there. I just was like, "All right, I'm done." Then like I- I didn't call to quit. I just never showed up again.

Glenn: Good.

Charlie: Then I started waiting tables at the Cornelius street café, and I was very bad, you know, and people-- I would come to the table and be like, "You had the fish?" They'd be like, "No, I ordered the chicken." "I'll be right back. I'll-- Gotta go to the kitchen." Uh, very terrible at that, and then very shortly after that, did a-- Like a monologue showcase, and I got a commercial agent. Uh, along- along with the regular agent that I'd gotten up at Williamstown, and just started getting like Foot Locker commercials and little things.

Glenn: What I wouldn't give to- to see a video of that monologue. Oh, what I wouldn't give.

Charlie: It was a good monologue. It was an Erick Progosnian monologue.

Glenn: You feel like you nailed it?

Charlie: Oh, yeah.

Glenn: You think-- Do you think if you watched it now, you would-- There's a-- Yeah, I did some performances in college that I-- where I was like-- I was amazing.

[all laughing]

And uh-

Charlie: No, but it was great. It was great.

Glenn: -and watched them. It like-- Like, they-- Because they have those in the-- At the library, that you can- you can check out.

Rob: Oh.

Glenn: And I watched a couple of my performances, and I was like, "Oh, no. I was bad."

Charlie: I think it was good. No, it was funny because I think that was the main thing about it. All those people took it very seriously-

Glenn: Right.

Charlie: -and Ryan was kind of funny. It's like this guy who walks up to a guy and is like, "Excuse me. Hey, I'm sorry. I couldn't help but notice your shoes there." [chuckles] You know, and- and slowly begins to steal the person's shoes. It's a very funny monologue. He's like, "Hey, you mind if I try those on?" And uh, you know, it would get big laughs.

Glenn: Well, here's- here's some good-- You know, I'm always being asked by young actors who-who-who, you know, pull me, and then they're like, "How do you-- What can I do to, like, break into the industry?" I will say that-- Because I did the same thing, when we did our showcases in college, in front of managers and agents, and- and casting directors, or whatever, everybody wanted to be serious and just do these very serious, emotional scenes, and I was like, "I bet you people are so sick of that, like--" And so I did two funny scenes-

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: -and got an agent and a manager, like, instantly.

Charlie: Think- think about--

Glenn: And I do think-- So if-- My advice to you, young actor, if you get into a showcase, be the funny one-

Rob: Yeah.

Glenn: -be the entertai-- Entertain them, cause no one everyone else-- Like, everyone else thinks, like,"I have to give an Oscar-worthy performance in this," and it's just fucking boring, and sad.

Charlie: Yeah. Think about it, he does-- Whoever's in there, you know, a commercial agent or whatever, a regular agent, and is watching monologue after monologue, they're probably saying, "Okay, who has a beautiful face, and I know can [chuckles] work."

Glenn: That's part of it. [crosstalk]

Charlie: So, that's the shitty side of it, and then they're saying, "Who's an interesting type, that will-"

Glenn: Right.

Charlie: "-that will pop." And then, if you're funny and you get laughs in the room, by the way, you'll know. [chuckles] Like-

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: -if you're not funny, and you're doing your monologue, and you're getting crickets, well-

Glenn: You'll find out, yeah.

Charlie: -well, then you'll know. But if you're-- If you can make a room full of people laugh, then suddenly someone says, "Well, there's-- That person has an ability that-"

Glenn: Mm-hmm.

Charlie: "-I can sell." So that-- That was that.

Glenn: Yeah. Yeah. Rob, what was the shittiest job that you had to do, uh, as a struggling actor to be?

Rob: Uh, the shittiest job? Well, I mean, I don't know that I had shitty jobs. I just had a series of waiting tables and- and barbacking, and things like that.

Glenn: How did you- how did you become an actor? Tell us that story-

Rob: Well--

Glenn: -I mean, I know, but, like, tell us that story. [crosstalk]

Rob: I actually don't recall. How- Like, how did you get an agent? [crosstalk]

Glenn: Well, Rob was a model.

Rob: Rob was never a model.

Glenn: Rob was a model. Well, he tried to be.

Rob: No, he didn't.

Glenn: Model Search America?

Rob: They were looking for- for people who-- It was- it was actors and models.

Glenn: Okay.

Rob: And I fell into the- the-- Um, my friend, Chris Backus, for example-

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: -fell into the category of [crosstalk]-

Glenn: Chris Backus has got [crosstalk]-

Rob: -of beautiful [crosstalk]--

Glenn: -more play on this podcast [crosstalk]-

Rob: I know, we're talking about [crosstalk]-

Glenn: -than any-- [laughs]

Rob: -him quite a bit, he's working quite a bit. [crosstalk]

Glenn: All the time.

Rob: But he was my friend, and was, um, he's very clearly a model, but they were also looking for actors-

Glenn: [chuckles]

Rob: -like, commercial actors, and I-- The truth of the matter is, it was because I was 21 years old and I looked like I was 15.

Glenn: Yeah, you were like, "I can play little tiny babies-"

Rob: Yes, which we've talked [crosstalk]-

Glenn: "-you know, I'm 21."

Rob: -I think we've talked about it on this podcast. [crosstalk]

Glenn: Oh, yeah. [crosstalk]

Charlie: So, they're like, "He's a boy model." [laughs]

Rob: No. So they were like, "Well, he can work-- We can work him like an animal, and he can be on a set for 13-14 hours, as opposed to a 15-year-old,-

Glenn: Oh, man, you--

Rob: -who can't." So I started doing commercials that way.

Glenn: Right.

Rob: -and then- and then I would do-- But I didn't get- I didn't get as many as you did, I didn't get them as quickly as you did.

Charlie: But, well, but-but-but-- [crosstalk]

Glenn: You guys got to look up on YouTube, Rob's, uh, antismoking, uh, commercial from when he was-- How old were you when you shot that? 19? No.

Rob: No, I was 20--

Glenn: I mean, too [crosstalk]--

Rob: At least- at least 21. [crosstalk]

Glenn: You look- you look 13, yeah.

Charlie: You do look 13, but how did-- Wait- wait, I'm sorry. How did you get in front of those people? How did you get--?

Rob: Yeah, so there was this- there was this, um, organization called Model Search America, which would just-- Which- which would, like, travel around the country, and- and they-they took an ad out in the newspaper.

Glenn: Looking for beautiful young people. [crosstalk]

Rob: Looking for-- Looking- looking for beautiful people, and then looking for, uh, seriously, like, looking- looking for character-ish type people. And they were, like, actors, models, whatever. And at first, I thought, "Oh, this is like a scam." And then you look it up and there was like-

Glenn: I'm gonna get [crosstalk]-

Rob: -successful people that went through it. [crosstalk]

Glenn: -I'm gonna get diddled for sure.

Rob: And so- [chuckles]

Glenn: -I'm definitely going to get diddled.

Rob: -and so you go to this open call, and I went to this open call in-- This was in Philly, and then they were like,"Yeah, come back." And then you come back and you go to this- this, like, event, and then you w-wind up, like, talking to all of these agents, and they basically bring you into the modeling agents, and then they were like, "Huh? No, not you."And then-

Glenn: Mm-hmm.

Rob: -then the commercial agents were like, "Oh, you-you have an interesting look. How old are you?"And then once they found out how old I was and that I could work as child-- Work as an adult that looked like a child, I signed- I signed with one of the biggest commercial agents-

Glenn: [clears throat]

Rob: -in New York.

Charlie: Which was who?

Rob: SEM&M.

Charlie: Oh.

Glenn: Right. Back to that, we're back to that.

Rob: Yeah, and then-

Charlie: [clears throat]

Rob: -and-

Glenn: To get a book. [crosstalk]

Rob: -then started wor-- And then I started, uh, oh, I got a-- Booked a commercial, and I was like, "I'm going to move to New York," and then I didn't work for two years.

Glenn: Now, well, two-- I've a two-part question. Um, uh, how many times did you get diddled? And, uh, the other part of the question is- is, did you just push past it or- or did you have to explain to them, "I'm not actually what you want, because I'm 23 years old?" And then they were like, "Oh, well, that-- You just-- You ruined it for me."

Charlie: There's a lot of [crosstalk]--

Glenn: Maybe that's the [crosstalk]--

Rob: That's the thing. There's a lot of disappointment because it's like, you're not breaking the law right now.

Glenn: Oh.

Charlie: Aw, yeah.

Glenn: And that's a big part of it. [crosstalk]

Rob: And that's a big part of the excitement for them.

Charlie: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Glenn: All right.

Rob: They're- they're like-

Charlie: [clears throat]

Rob: "Oh, I'm ruining you for life." And I'm like, "No, no, I've already-"

Charlie: "No, I'm already ruined, guy-"

Rob: "I'm-I'm-I'm--"

Charlie: "I'm 52."

Glenn: [laughs]

Rob: "Yeah, I'm a-"

Charlie: Uh--

Rob: "-I'm a grown man. I was ruined years ago, right?"

Charlie: "Yeah- yeah- yeah. I'm a--"

Rob: Yeah.

Charlie: "I ruined other kids." Um, what-- Did you, uh-

Glenn: Jesus.

Charlie: -did you-- Were you-

Glenn: Cut that, cut that-

Charlie: -were you-

Glenn: -cut that-cut that-

Charlie: auditioning-

Glenn: -cut that-cut that.

Charlie: -consistently- were you auditioning consistently? Like--

Rob: Yes. Well, I would see all of you guys at the same auditions. I just wasn't getting those jobs.

Charlie: Well, the commercial auditions, too, like, some of those jobs, none of us were getting, cause there were big movies, and-

Rob: Yeah.

Charlie: -we were unknown people, but like- but like the commercials, they were constantly casting.

Rob: They were, and I just wasn't- I just wasn't getting them.

Glenn: Mmm, yeah.

Rob: You know like people have, like, certain things that they want, and you- you [crosstalk]--

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: And you weren't-- Wasn't it?

Rob: I wasn't it.

Glenn: [chuckles] You weren't it?

Charlie: You looked too young to be in the beer commercial.

Rob: Well, no then-- No, once I then got old enough to look, about 18, then they were like, "Well, there's lots of you."

Charlie: Right. Mm.

Rob: And that was that. You know, I did my- I did my- my Law and Order, and I did my- I did all of-

Charlie: Yeah.

Rob: -the-the New York stuff.

Charlie: Yeah.

Rob: Then, that runs out, and then you move to Los Angeles.

Charlie: Glenn, did you never do a Law and Order?

Glenn: I never got- I never even auditioned for Law and Order.

Charlie: What?

Glenn: I'm like, one of the only actors in the universe who lived in New York and never did Law and Order. No. That-- I think the first on-camera gig I did was Rescue Me. Oh no, not Rescue Me. Sorry, um, uh, what was Dennis Leary's show before that? The-- Oh God, what was the name of that show? Remember, where I--

Charlie: Oh-

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: -yeah, that- that was out here.

Glenn: No, that was in New York.

Rob: Oh, it was?

Glenn: That was in New York.

Rob: The Job?

Glenn: Yep, that- that's the show, Megan pulled it up.

Charlie: Megan pulled--

Glenn: The Job.

Charlie: The Job.

Glenn: Uh, it was a pretty good show. It was ha-- Like, a half-hour drama-comedy about- about cops. Uh, well, it wasn't a comedy, but it was-- It took place in a police squadron. Anyway, that was my first on-camera gig. And then, uh, yeah, and then I did, like, a-- ABC movie of the week, called Monday Night Mayhem, where I played Dick Ebersol.

Charlie: Yes.

Glenn: Uh-huh.

Charlie: I kind of remember that too.

Glenn: Yeah, yeah.

Charlie: Dick Ebersol-

Glenn: Oh, man.

Charlie: -wow.

Glenn: You know, it's funny, because I-I-I also looked very young. Not- not as young as you did, but I-I had kind of a babyish face, and I-I looked pretty young and, um, but I already had, like, massive amounts of chest hair-

Charlie: [laughs]

Glenn: -like, an- an obscene amount of chest hair. Um, for-for some-- For-- They-- It didn't match the face at all. It was like-- It was like Tom Selleck level chest hair on the face of, like, um, uh, somebody who looks like he's 18 years old. And, uh-uh-- I-- So, I booked this Dick Eb-- Dick Ebersol role, and there was a scene where I was supposed to be sitting, and we were supp- Me and, um-- Oh God, what was that actor's name? John, uh, Her-Heard.

Charlie: Uh-huh.

Glenn: Not Hurt, but Heard.

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: Rest in peace.

Charlie: Rest in peace.

Glenn: Uh, John Heard and I were supposed to be at a golf course, sitting in these, like, uh, lounging chairs, like, looking over the golf course, smoking cigars, and watching people play golf, and having this very serious, uh, conversation about- about football. And when I showed up on the day to shoot that scene, um, they were like-- He-- They showed me to my- to my dressing room and, uh, [clears throat] I go in there, and they were like, "Go ahead and get into wardrobe, and then we'll get you into hair and makeup."

And I was like, "Great." So I-I opened the closet. They were like, "Yeah, your wardrobe's in the closet." I opened the closet. It's just a little teeny, tiny pair of shorts. Like, a pair of like, uh, a ba-ba-bathing suit. And I was like "O-o-on a golf course? Like, what's going on?" I pulled the AD aside and I was like, "W-w-what is this? I-I'm-- Why am I wearing a bathing suit on a golf course?" And they were like, "Oh, they changed it- they changed it. You're going to be in a hot tub now."

And what I didn't want to say, because I was super em-embarrassed about it, is I was like, "I have so much chest hair, and I just don't want to show it.

Charlie: Oh, bud.

Glenn: And I had-- Yeah, oh, I was so self-conscious about it. Because I was like-- I wanted-- You know, I-I wanted to be able to play a young man, and yet I had the- I had the torso of like a 40-year-old man, and the face of an 18-year-old, and it just didn't match. And I-- [laughs] And I remember, I went to the hair and makeup chair, and I was like, "Hey, do you guys have scissors?" And I fucking, like, tried to trim the top part-- Because I knew it was only the top part of my chest hair that would show. And then I-- And then we got in the hot tub, and I-

Charlie: Oh.

Glenn: -dipped down as low as I could get.

Rob: You only trimmed the top?

Charlie: I see what you going-- You're going [crosstalk]-

Rob: No I know what you're [crosstalk]--

Charlie: -through your shoulders. [crosstalk]

Rob: I know what you're going for, but when you took your shirt off, was it just the top of your chest hair that was trimmed, and then the lower half was full bush?

Glenn: Uh, yes, because-- [chuckles] Full bush, yeah. But that's because I was-- I knew I was going to be in a hot tub, so only a certain amount of it was going to show, and that was the-- And I didn't have time, I honestly didn't [crosstalk]-

Charlie: Yeah, how hilarious [crosstalk]-

Glenn: -have time to do the whole thing. [crosstalk]

Charlie: -if they're like, "So, we're, uh, we're changing the block in here, and you guys are going to be standing."

[all laughing]

Glenn: Yeah, that would've bee-- Yeah [crosstalk]-

Charlie: Yeah-yeah-yeah.

Glenn: -now, you guys are gonna be standing outside the-- But like, I tried to get as low in that hot tub as I possibly could. I was so-- Like, guys, I was so self-conscious about it. I really was.

Charlie: Sure, of course, sure. And how fucked up that is, that they're like, "Oh, by the way, now-- Uh, yeah, it- it used to be in the script."

Glenn: That's not okay.

Rob: Yeah, that's not okay. [crosstalk]

Charlie: Yeah. And all of a sudden you're going to be half naked? Fuck you. [crosstalk]

Glenn: Yeah, fuck you. [crosstalk]

Rob: No-no, they can't do that- they can't do that.

Glenn: Yeah. But I didn't know- I didn't know, fuck you, at the time. I just thought like [crosstalk]--

Charlie: Of course- of course [crosstalk]-

Rob: Yeah, of course that's [crosstalk]-

Charlie: -that's part of the-- That-- Isn't that part of the problem? It's like, nobody knows, fuck, nobody has the confidence to say, "Fuck you," because they think they're going to get fired, which, by the way, you might have.

Glenn: I might- I might have, yeah.

Charlie: You definitely would've.

Rob: Yeah.

Charlie: Back then.

Rob: Back then. Fuck those guys.

Glenn: Yeah, probably, yeah. Oh, guys.

Rob: Well- well, I'm bored, um [crosstalk]--

Charlie: Are you bored?

Rob: Well, yeah. I mean, I love you guys, but, um-

Glenn: You're sick of it?

Charlie: Ugh.

Rob: Yeah, and I think that the audience has had enough, and let's do the next one tomorrow.

Glenn: Yeah, guys.

Rob: We did it.

Glenn: We- we- we did it.

Charlie: We did it.

Rob: The end.


[00:50:05] [END OF AUDIO]


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