Charlie Wants An Abortion | Always Sunny Podcast – The Always Sunny Podcast
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Episode #2

Charlie Wants An Abortion

We're just figuring this out, guys. Still figuring it out.

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2. Charlie Wants An Abortion

On the pod, the guys revisit Charlie Wants An Abortion from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia Season 1, Episode 2.

Glenn Howerton: I'm always sleepy.

Rob McElhenney: Yes, I know. I've known you for a good 20 years.

Glenn: No-

Charlie: Well--

Glenn: -no, I don't think you know how-- just how sleepy I am.

Charlie: Well, you're a man who claims to be sleepy, but you don't show the signs of sleepiness.

Rob: Well, he just yawned.

Charlie: Well, yeah, a yawn, you're making me yawn.

Glenn: Well, does constantly having red eyes count? 'Cause my eyes are just always red.

Rob: You see, I don't notice that. I do- I do listen to you-- [crosstalk]

Glenn: You don't notice it?

Charlie: I don't see that either.

Rob: No, I-I notice you-

Glenn: Oh, that's good.

Rob: -mentioning how tired you are all the time.

Charlie: That I hear. That I pick up on.

Glenn: Yeah. I think I probably use more energy than the average person acting like I'm not tired, and that's probably why I'm so tired, because I'm-- uh, it's-it's almost like a cyclical sort of like self-perpetuating-

Rob: Right.

Glenn: -issue.

Rob: Right.

Glenn: It's a lot of run, stop, run, stop.

Rob: Well, welcome back to the podcast.

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: Uh, this is uh-

Charlie: Mm.

Rob: -It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia.

Glenn: I'm Glenn Howerton.

Rob: I'm Rob McElhenney.

Charlie: I'm Charlie Day. I guess, did we do that last time, where we say who we were?

Glenn: I don't know.

Charlie: I guess, is that part of it?

Rob: We're s-- we're finding in it.

Glenn: We're just figuring this out, guys.

Rob: [unintelligible 00:00:57]

Glenn: Still figuring out. This is only Episode 2.

Rob: And once again, we'll, uh, we've already begun, and then we'll talk for a while and then it'll just sort of end.


Glenn: Guys, we just watched Episode 2 of the show. Charlie wants an abortion. Do any of you guys seem to recall when that was written? In what sequence? 'Cause, that's not how we shot 'em. That was like maybe the-- I wanna say that was the third one we shot.

Rob: It was the second-- Wasn't it the second one we wrote?

Glenn: It was the second one we wrote, but I believe it was maybe the third one we shot. I-I don't know.

Rob: It feels like in watching it, that after watching the first episode that we aired, I definitely remember thinking, maybe we talked about this on the podcast, "I don't know why anybody would watch the show," but watching that one, I'm like, "Oh, okay. I see some- I see some funny--" [crosstalk]

Glenn: You see some potential there, yeah.

Charlie: Yeah, I like-- that one holds up to me. I like that one.

Rob: Yeah, yeah. The kid's great. It seems like everybody is sort of--

Charlie: All the guest cast is amazing in it.

Rob: Yeah, yeah. We were still finding Dee. Dee's character in that is-- was still sort of like the wet blanket-

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: -who's like, "Guys what are you doing?"

Charlie: But she's so funny in the scene with me-

Rob: Definitely.

Charlie: -at the mall with the waitress.

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: Yeah, she finds her moments.

Charlie: She-she knows how to be funny. So that's not an issue.

Glenn: Yeah, yeah, she always knew how to elevate it, but you're right, in terms of the writing, we-we hadn't quite found her character yet-

Rob: Yeah.

Glenn: -and what was funny about it.

Charlie: That-that was the only episode I re-- vividly remember writing on a yellow legal pad and sho-- and showing you my notes. Like the-the scenes with the kid.

Rob: Yeah.

Glenn: I remember that. I actually remember the offices we were in and I-I remember that was when we were all having conversations about what the title of the show could be, because it shouldn't be It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia, because that's insane.

Rob: Mm-hmm.

Glenn: It's a terrible, terrible title.

Charlie: Mm.

Glenn: It's too much of a mouthful, and we had a bet go-- actually, we did a bet in the office. Do you remember? $500.

Rob: Well, we-we didn't have a bet, we offered people money.

Glenn: No, we-- [unintelligible 00:02:51] 5--

Charlie: No, it was 200- it was $200.

Glenn: Are you sure?

Charlie: Yeah, we weren't $500 men yet.


Glenn: Oh, you're probably right.

Charlie: So, yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure it was $200. Like, "Whoa, that's steep."

Glenn: Yeah, that's steep, yeah.

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: 200- $200 for whoever could come up with the best title.

Charlie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was like--

Rob: And we didn't go with the best one.

Glenn: No.

Rob: No, you can make the argument we-we went with the worst one.

Glenn: You know what, I've got that-- I think I have that list somewhere and I should try to find it.

Charlie: Oh, you should dig that up.

Glenn: I've got it, no I know I have it. I know I have it.

Charlie: The-the only one I remember is Jerks.

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: But what else possibly could we have come up with?

Glenn: I don't know, yeah.

Rob: Jerks-Jerks would've been better, I think.

Glenn: Jerks was way up there, I remember. And I don't remember why we didn't-- why didn't we go with Jerks? Did we feel like it was too-

Rob: Too cute?

Glenn: -um, reductive, too cute? I don't know.

Charlie: I have no idea.

Rob: But this stupid title one by war of attrition. I think we just got to the end and we were like, "Ah, I don't know."

Glenn: Screw it.

Rob: Screw it.

Charlie: Mm-hmm.

Glenn: Screw it. It's memorable.

Rob: Let's just-- it's-- but it's not.

Glenn: No it isn't.

Rob: It's not memorable. That's the problem.

Glenn: It's a bad title.

Rob: It's a bad title.

Glenn: It's a bad title, and it continues to be a bad title.

Rob: And the people-- but-but then they talk about it and they go, "No, no, it's actually a great title. Don't you see?" And I'm like, "Nah-

Charlie: No, no. Yeah, yeah.

Rob: -it's not."

Glenn: Yeah, everyone's like-- [chuckles] I've had so many people come and they're like, "I love it 'cause it's not always sunny in Philly. [chuckles] That's what's-- and it's funny 'cause of that."


Glenn: I'm like, "Yeah, yeah. I guess so."


Glenn: I mean, that wasn't-- the original home movie was actually titled It's Always Sunny on TV. We were originally playing ourselves and we were originally actors who occasionally worked, but ba-- mainly, we just wanted to have vain characters who had a lot of time on their hands. And so originally, we were all actors. So the original title of the show was It's Always Sunny on TV, and that came from-- I was at the gym. I remember I was at Crunch Gym on Sunset Boulevard in West Hollywood.

Charlie: What were you doing? What were you working on?

Rob: Yeah, what were you working--

Glenn: I believe at the time I was stretching-

Rob: Yeah.

Glenn: -when this song came on.

Charlie: You just went to the gym to stretch?

Glenn: No, I-- no, it was post-workout.

Rob: I'm-I'm-I'm gonna just throw-

Charlie: Oh, so you--

Rob: -I'm gonna throw this in real quick. This story has been told so many times over the last 15 years that anybody who's listening to this has probably already heard it 15 times. However, I think you should tell it, but anybody who's-- has acc-access to their phone should just hit, like, that thing where you can make it go fast.

Glenn: Yeah, you can make it go forward.

Rob: Yeah.

Charlie: I will say this, I don't remember the Crunch Gym aspect of it.

Glenn: I'm gonna--

Charlie: I also went to a Crunch [laughs] Gym. So, but I don't remember Crunches Gym affiliation with our successful show. So for the people of Crunch, I think they might want to hear it.

Glenn: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I mean--

Charlie: 'Cause they're-they're still out there crunching, yes?

Glenn: Well, [unintelligible 00:05:08]


Glenn: I don't-- I think they are. I think so.

Charlie: Crunch still exists, right?

Rob: Are they crunching? I don't know.

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: I don't know.

Rob: I think they got bought out.

Charlie: [crosstalk] too many people get crunched. They're like, "Oh man, I crunched myself bad."

Glenn: That was such a fun gym to go to. It was always-- there was always great people to watch at that gym. You know, Dave Navarro was always there. I was always like, "That's weird." He was-- that dude was there every single time I was there, and I was there at random times. So I was like, "He's here all the fucking time-

Rob: Crunching.

Glenn: -because-- Crunching.

Rob: He's just crunching.

Glenn: Getting his crunch on.

Charlie: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: Getting crunchy.

Glenn: I think people have read this story, but I don't know if they've heard our voices telling it. And that's what makes it special.


Charlie: Okay. All right.

Glenn: So, um, so I'm at Crunch.

Rob: [unintelligible 00:05:43]

Glenn: I've just finished my workout.

Charlie: Mm-hmm.

Glenn: Uh, I'm doing some stretches. Don't ask me why, but I'm listening to-- I don't know if I have my shit on shuffle or if I was actually listening to an A-ha album.

Rob: Mm-hmm.

Glenn: It's the-- their most-- it's the one with Take on Me on it. It's actually a great album, and there's a-

Charlie: Good stretching song. [laughs]

Glenn: -and there's a song-- [laughs] and there was a song that came on.

Charlie: Stretch my legs.

Glenn: Well, so the song that came on was The Sun Always Shines On TV, I believe is the actual title of the show. And that is the chorus of the song. And I just remember thinking like, "Oh, that's a good ti-- that's a good title for the show. It's always sunny--" or like some version of that. And then I don't remember how we actually-- how that morphed into It's Always Sunny on TV, but it is- it's based on the A-ha song.

Rob: And that would've made a lot more sense if we were doing a show about--

Charlie: It's always-

Rob: What-- right.

Charlie: -Sunny on TV is a good title.

Glenn: It is.

Rob: Yes.

Charlie: Yeah. It's always Sunny in Philadelphia-- [crosstalk]

Rob: Is not.

Glenn: It makes no sense.

Charlie: Nah, it's-- [crosstalk]

Glenn: We just changed the words out.

Rob: Yeah, we just changed the words out.

Glenn: Oh, it lost its entire meaning.

Rob: Yes.

Charlie: But there-there is something to, like, sometimes something that's too premeditated, like the fact that it's not a good title is why it's a good title.

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: Right? Is that it's not-- like Jerks is too cute and then, like, too polished, and I-I don't know, like, the me--

Glenn: Too networky. It's too networky.

Rob: Too-too accessible- too accessible.

Glenn: It is too accessible, yeah. We'd have lost- we'd have lost some of our street cred with that title maybe. [laughs]

Charlie: Yeah, in a way.

Glenn: Do we have street cred?

Charlie: I mean, that's just, uh-

Rob: Uh, no.

Charlie: -that's corporate art, man. That's music, man.

Glenn: [laughs] Yeah, man.

Charlie: Man, I ain't interested in that.

Glenn: Fuck that, man.

Charlie: That ain't for me man. I want the accidental title.

Rob: Yeah, yeah.

Glenn: [laughs] I want the default title.

Charlie: Yeah, man.

Glenn: 'Cause they couldn't come up with something good.

Charlie: Yeah, yeah. Give me the Jackson Pollock of titles, man.

Rob: Now, Mac's straight in this- in this episode.

Glenn: Very straight. Extremely straight.

Charlie: Undeniably straight in this episode.

Glenn: Undeniably.

Rob: Yeah, but we always knew eventually in season 11 we were gonna take this character in a different direction. [laughs]

Charlie: Oh, yeah.

Glenn: Now, we talked about it extensively. We knew that once we were, yeah, as you said, 11 seasons in-

Charlie: Mm-hmm-mm-hmm.

Glenn: -we were gonna, you know, 'cause we knew we were gonna go 11 seasons at that point.

Rob: For those of-- fans that we knew were gonna invest as much time in it.

Glenn: Yeah, um, I--

Charlie: Um, that kid now--

Rob: Yes, how old is he?

Glenn: Oh, he's gotta be-

Charlie: He's gotta be mid 50s.

Glenn: -in his late 20s.


Charlie: Yeah, how old is that kid? My God.

Glenn: I mean, he-he was probably what? 11 years old when he shot that? So, and that was 16 years ago. So he's probably 20, in his late 20s. Spencer.

Rob: Spencer.

Glenn: Spencer, I believe was his name.

Rob: We gotta have him-- we gotta have him back.

Glenn: We should have Spencer. He was great

Rob: He was- he was great.

Charlie: We were commenting on, uh-- so I remember the night before shooting a couple of those scenes, like, having a few ideas, lying in bed, thinking about things, and being like, "Oh, I should have him hit me with a pool stick. That'd be funny." And I was like, "Oh, I should have him spit right in my face when I'm doing the thing with the Keys."

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: But we didn't tell the director that we were- we were--

Glenn: We didn't talk to the directors very much in those early seasons.

Rob: Mm-hmm.

Glenn: We just kind of did what-whatever we wanted, and we expected [laughs] them to know.

Rob: Yeah.

Charlie: So Spencer hauls off and spits right in my face, and I remember the director like-- 'cause they were across the street, like, yelling cut and like trying to run-run across the street to, like, stop the cut, and I remember thinking like, "Oh, I--" f-fortunately we got enough of the takeout before you could hear him on camera, but I remember being irritated that he would yell cut-

Glenn: Well, yeah, it was just--

Charlie: -which is like.

Glenn: It's like a guy does a fucking stunt and breaks his arm. You don't yell cut. And you were like, "No, you-you fucking-- I broke my arm for that shot, you fuck." Like, I just got spit in the face.

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: Like, keep it. Like, what are you doing? Don't yell cut.

Rob: Just to be clear, I-I get Charlie's point. You're saying if-if somebody breaks their arm in a scene, let's just say it's a 4 or 5-minute-long scene, we should- we should continue with the scene until--

Glenn: You-you make sure that whatever fucking shot you're on, you have that and then you yell cut.

Charlie: No, Glenn is saying he's so badass that if he breaks his arm, don't-- you're not saying you would hurt a-another actor, you're saying as director, he was saying, and I'm with you, if I don't tap out of this cut, goddamn, keep rolling 'cause I just broke my arm for this shit.

Glenn: 'Cause I just broke my arm for this shot.

Charlie: Right? And if it's a really good take and you ruin it and I have a broken arm, then we both lose.

Glenn: Ah, I'll be furious, yeah.

Charlie: I'm with you. I'm 100% with you.

Glenn: Everyone loses.

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: Everyone loses.

Charlie: The show must go on.

Rob: Yeah. Spencer Daniels, he played a young Brad Pitt in Benjamin Buttons.

Glenn: Oh, dude, was he in Benjamin Buttons?

Rob: Yes.

Charlie: I thought- I thought Brad Pitt played young Brad Pitt in Benjamin Buttons. I thought that was the whole thing of the Buttons.

Glenn: I believe it's Benjamin Buttons.

Rob: Yes.

Charlie: Benjamin's Buttons.

Glenn: The Be-Be-Benjamin Buttons.

Charlie: He continues to-

Rob: He-he ages backwards.

Charlie: He ages backwards.

Rob: And then he hits a certain point where even-even Brad Pitt can't play-

Glenn: Right.

Rob: -an eight year old Brad Pitt.

Glenn: You need Spencer. That's when Spencer [crosstalk]

Charlie: You're underestimating Brad Pitt as people always have.

Rob: Wow.

Charlie: He could definitely play an eight year old if he wanted to.

Glenn: He could play a baby. He could play a baby.

Charlie: He could do it all.

Glenn: He could play a baby.

Charlie: But I don't remember anything with batons.

Glenn: They were small, little, round things that keep your shirt together.

Charlie: Oh, I thought it was-

Glenn: But they were batons.

Charlie: -like the parade batons.

Glenn: No. Well, no, they were, but they were small, and they were round, and they kept the sh-- the person's shirt together.

Charlie: Oh, in the form of a baton.

Glenn: Yeah, exactly.

Rob: One thing we noticed from this episode was that we had some certain level of interest in-in some kind of social commentary, that we noticed that there was one tiny line as we're watching it, where Dee's cutting the limes, and Den-- just for filler before someone walks in, Dennis is commenting on how she's cutting the limes.

Glenn: That's-that's-that's thin. [crosstalk]

Charlie: Too thin. She's cutting them too thin.

Rob: And I think Charlie said, as we were watching it, that's what the entire show is now. Like-

Glenn: Right.

Rob: -what-what we realized was, we can keep making these kinds of shows, but what's really funny are the conversations that happen in between sort of the bigger conversations we're having.

Glenn: Yeah, yeah, having-- getting into a whole thing about whether li-- the limes should be thin or thick.

Rob: Yes.

Glenn: Actually, that, I believe did come from us talking about, like, how-- [chuckles] I mean I think some of that, I-I think it--

Rob: 'Cause we were trying to go for accuracy, like, how would a bartender really cut limes?

Glenn: Right.

Rob: 'Cause we were trying- we were trying to say this was a real bar and these were real human beings, I think, at one point.

Charlie: Well, yeah, yeah, but also too, you know, you get 15 years in, and then in the first season, you're-you're like, "Well, we did- we did, uh, racism and abortion and-

Glenn: Cancer.

Charlie: -uh, cancer," and then like, "What's left? What's-- Oh, you're just left with limes." [laughs]

Glenn: Uh, yeah.

Charlie: You know, like, that's it. You're like, "Well, I guess we do an episode about limes."

Glenn: Yeah, we can probably figure out an episode about fruit.

Charlie: The thickness and thinness of them.

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: M-maybe we re-- also realize that it's just straight up funnier to talk about wanting chips, and you should have gotten chips at a hamburger store.

Glenn: Yeah, getting real heated about something that's relatively minor. However, also weirdly relatable, because yeah, we've all been in that situation where you've got a little bag of chips and your buddy's like, "Let me have some of those chips." You're like, "It's a small bag of chips here, and I'm loving it, and I'm hungry, and I don't wanna give you my chips because they're delicious to me and I-- you should have gotten them."

Rob: Yeah, you had an opportunity to get them. Yeah.

Glenn: We were both at the vending machine and you should have also gotten the chips and now you wanna sip of my Fanta too? Get fucked.

Charlie: Yeah, we do both, you know, we do both. We-we-we got scenes like that, but then we have time's up for the gang, which is fairly recent, and we're talking about the time's up movement, which is a big, you know-

Rob: Yeah.

Charlie: -thing that happened, I guess.

Glenn: But they can't all be-- yeah. They can't all be that. [crosstalk]

Rob: That was Megan. Megan did that. Megan wrote that. So if anybody's upset with that one, like, that's Megan, that's [crosstalk]

Charlie: Yeah, blame Megan.

Glenn: That was her fault. That was her fault. That's her fault.

Charlie: Megan, that's your- that's your fault.

Rob: Megan wrote- Megan wrote, "Rob grabs another woman by her vagina and lifts her up into the air."

Glenn: Yeah, yeah, Megan wrote that.

All: Megan, Megan, Megan, Megan, Megan.

Glenn: Meghan wrote that, Megan wrote that. She's a woman, she's a woman. She's a woman.

Charlie: Blame her.

Glenn: Also a notable, uh, guest star in that episode is Mr. Cormac Bluestone.

Rob: Yeah.

Charlie: Oh, yeah.

Glenn: Uh, and for those of you who don't know who Cormac Bluestone is, he plays Jimmy Doyle in the episode, but more importantly, he became our resident composer-

Charlie: He did.

Glenn: -and helped us compose most of the original songs that have ever been on the show.

Charlie: Mm-hmm, and then not just the original songs, but like, a lot of score and-

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: -when-when we-we have, like, a really moody episode and we need something very specific, he'll, like-- last season for laser tag stuff, we wanted, like, a sort of shining esque theme and-and he-he nailed that.

Glenn: Did he? Oh, he did that?

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: I didn't remember that. Okay, yeah, but yeah, very talented guy. Charlie, you've been-- were friends with him before.

Charlie: He was one of the Williamstown Theater Festival guys. I knew, like, Jimmi Simpson and David Hornsby and uh--

Glenn: Right, a lot of people that we know came from that connection.

Charlie: Yeah, Nate Mooney, yeah.

Glenn: Yeah, The Williamstown Theater Festival. Check it out. It's somewhere. Where is it?

Rob: Williamstown.

Charlie: Williamstown. It's-

Glenn: Yeah, but that's not a state.

Charlie: -it's self-evident.

Glenn: What state is that in?

Charlie: It's in the state of Massachusetts.

Glenn: Oh, oh.

Charlie: In the Western most corner there. [crosstalk]

Glenn: Well, listen, if you ever find yourselves in the state of Massachusetts and you're looking for some good theater, check out the Williamstown Theater Festival, and you're not getting any of my chips during intermission.


Glenn: I wanna talk about how much it hurt to get pelted with those eggs in that episode. Okay.

Charlie: Yeah, let's talk about that.

Glenn: It hurt, it really hurt. One-one caught me right in the ear.

Charlie: But we didn't stop and yell cut. One caught him in the ear.

Glenn: This is-- yes.

Charlie: We got the shot.

Glenn: That's a very salient point, and it's exactly what I was trying to say earl-- Yeah, it's exactly what I'm saying--

Charlie: I'm 100% with you here, pal. Yeah. We have the same work-work ethic when it comes to that-

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: -which is like, let's get the shot man.

Rob: But what if the line wasn't scripted, but you screamed out, "Dear God, my eye has been pierced." And then we look up and your eye's falling out of your head.

Glenn: Again I--

Rob: Should we stop or should we keep going?

Glenn: I think an extra three or four seconds to make sure that you've got that shot and it's in the can-

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: -is not gonna make the difference between whether I lose my sight in that eye or not.

Charlie: Yeah, yeah. 'Cause like, also, what am I doing in the scene? Like, is it a really good take for me? I want that in.

Rob: Well, we do cross cover. We do cross cover, so you're-- yeah.

Charlie: So, you know, just 'cause your eye's out doesn't mean I'm not-- [crosstalk]

Glenn: Yeah, you weren't in that scene.

Charlie: No, no.

Glenn: Are you just talking in-- what are you saying?

Charlie: Theoretically.

Glenn: Theoretical-theoretical you.

Charlie: Theoretical me.

Glenn: Yeah. Um, I-I believe we started shooting that scene though and people were throwing eggs at me, and they were not bursting. They were just bouncing off of me, and that hurt even more.

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: So then somebody had the bright idea of just poking holes in the eggs so that they would explode every time they hit me, and uh, that was a good idea, and it was disgusting and I hated it. Uh, you know, but I did it. I did it because I'm a professional.

Charlie: [sighs]

Glenn: Don't sigh.

Rob: Little known fact.

Glenn: I did it because I'm a--

Rob: Little known fact, there is an, uh, an actor that had a scene that we hired a friend of ours, Olivia Munn. We didn't-- she wasn't a friend at the time.

Glenn: Did you guys mention that when we were watching the episode? I have no memory of this.

Rob: Yes, yes.

Glenn: What? We do-- did we hire--

Charlie: I didn't remember it either, but I bumped into her-

Rob: Yes.

Charlie: -at a gym, not Crunch.

Rob: Crunch.

Charlie: And um, uh-

Glenn: You go to a lot of gyms, Charlie.

Charlie: -she was- she was-- Can't you tell? And uh, she told me that story, where she was supposed to be-

Glenn: Oh.

Charlie: Kaitlyn's, uh--

Glenn: What was her excuse?

Rob: Yes.

Glenn: Why didn't she show up that day?

Charlie: Something with, like--

Rob: It was not her fault.

Glenn: Was it not?

Rob: Yeah, no. It was something with the--

Charlie: No. It was like a scheduled thing or they told her the wrong this or--

Rob: Yeah, the [unintelligible 00:16:07] yeah, they gave her the wrong information.

Glenn: Oh.

Charlie: It's only twice that's happened on our show, where the actor didn't show up. One was Olivia Munn-

Rob: Yes.

Charlie: -the other was Michael Madsen.

Glenn: Oh, God. Right.

Rob: Yeah, he just straight up didn't show up.

Charlie: Michael Madsen.

Rob: I've never seen that before.

Charlie: He fled the country.

Glenn: He-he--

Rob: He fled the state. He fled the state.

Glenn: He was trying to get out of a--

Charlie: The country. He was in Canada.

Rob: I believe he got out of the state of California.

Charlie: They're like, "The man's in Manitoba, Canada."

Glenn: Right, right. He's not gonna make it.

Charlie: Yeah, he's not here. He owes-- He's gone. He owes, like, some, uh, spousal support or some shit.

Rob: But I remember-- I do remember--

Glenn: It was a spousal support situation.

Charlie: It was a spousal support, and he did not want to support that situation. And he's like, "Guys, I'm so sorry, I'm out of the country."

Rob: Yeah.

Charlie: But his agent was like, "Guess what? we got Tom Sizemore on hold."

Rob: Yeah.

Charlie: So apparently his agent's like-

Glenn: We were like, "Yeah even better, great."

Charlie: -"I got- I got all the crazies, man. I got, you know, I got all the wild guys."

Rob: And so Sizemore comes in, crushes. That's a different episode. We'll talk about that.

Charlie: That's a different episode.

Rob: But then I-I do remember, you know, like six months later, we got word back from Michael Madsen's agent-

Charlie: Oh.

Rob: -who was like-- re-reached out and said, "Hey, guys, just FYI, you know, Michael is-is still, like, a huge fan of the show and would love to- would love to come back on."

Glenn: Oh.

Rob: And we were like, "Oh, so-- sorry, I'm sorry. He-he didn't show-- straight up just didn't show up one day-

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: -and now he's-he's looking to come back."

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: Okay. We'll consider it.

Glenn: Yeah, we'll- we'll--

Charlie: Noted.

Rob: Noted.

Charlie: And by the way I love-- He's great.

Rob: I love Michael Madsen.

Charlie: I mean, I don't-- and I can't speak on behalf of him. I'm sure he's done terrible things or no-no bad things. I don't know, and this is not an endorsement. Leave me alone. Cut this, cut this.

Glenn: Get off me, get off me.

Charlie: Cut this, cut this.

Rob: Cut it all, cut this.

Charlie: You can't do a podcast these days. It's crazy.

Glenn: God, jeez, everybody breathing down your neck.

Charlie: It's like walking through a minefield. This is crazy. Oh.


Charlie: Anyways--

Glenn: Um, I-I would also like to point out that in that first season, we were all-- and I don't remember why this was. Everybody's wearing a hybrid of their clothes from their wardrobe, but also there was wardrobe, and also, like, we had a props department, so we had props, but also some of the props were like ours.

Charlie: Also we did-- yeah, yeah.

Glenn: What the hell was that? Why was that? I've never seen anything fucking like that.

Rob: We weren't a real TV show.

Charlie: No, it was real like student film production quality.

Glenn: Yes.

Rob: And we-we don't need to get into the exact amount we were paid at the time, but it was--

Glenn: It was minimal.

Rob: When we tell people the-- what-what we got paid, it's almost like it was not-- it's not possible.

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: I don't know how they got away with that.

Glenn: Well, because they-they were like, you know--

Rob: But there-- Aren't there unions, and-- Like we had-- we were all SAG and WGA and directors [crosstalk]

Glenn: Was the show even SAG in the first season or was it was after?

Rob: It was- it was after.

Glenn: It was after.

Charlie: Yeah, it was not SAG.

Rob: It was after, and I think that they didn't want us to be WGA either. In fact, we might not have been WGA-

Glenn: Oh boy, here we go.

Rob: -for the first season.

Glenn: Hey, you guys wanna talk about unions? [laughs]

Charlie: Um, I'm curious on your take on this.

Glenn: Okay.

Charlie: So going back to actors just not showing up on set. I've always wondered this about, like, you hear stories about, like, um, you know, super famous actors that are elusive in a way, and that's part of their allure. Like, well they just-- you know, like, they'll have a meeting with the director, the meeting goes well, and then the director's just wondering, hey, on the first day of filming, you know, this dude may or may not show up. What the fuck is that? Like, uh, like, how-how is that-- that's not charming, right? That's not--

Glenn: That's not-- no.

Charlie: That's crazy. Like, you know--

Glenn: I feel like those are the kind of shenanigans that are less and less tolerated these days. And I-I could be wrong about that, but I feel like more and more people are just like, "No, fuck that guy. We-- I-I don't wanna work with him or her. I-I just-- I-- It's not worth it. It's not worth it. There's too many talented people out there and life's too short."

Charlie: Well, it's like the guy who, like, you know, the key grip who lives in Santa Clarita-

Glenn: Right.

Charlie: -who wakes up at four in the morning-

Glenn: Right.

Charlie: -who doesn't get to see his kid in the morning, you know, who hasn't seen his kid for a week or whatever. Drives like-

Glenn: Mm-hmm.

Charlie: -in the middle- in the middle of the night all the way to-

Glenn: Well, here's the good news. He still gets paid.

Charlie: -Manhattan Beach.

Glenn: He gets-- he still gets paid, so he's not that upset. That guy, Santa Clarita.

Charlie: Ah, yeah, maybe. Yeah.

Glenn: He's like, "I'll hold the boom mic or not. Either way, I'm getting paid. I don't give a shit."

Charlie: Right. Um, what else?

Glenn: Yeah, what else, what else? Rob, what do you got, man?

Charlie: What can you talk about these days?

Rob: What can you cover?

Glenn: I have heard people say many times, though, they're like, "Yeah, yeah it was- it was just much-much more grounded." The show was much more grounded in Season 1 [laughs]

Rob: That's true, which actually makes it more terrifying.

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: Yeah.

Rob: It was- it was more grounded and we were almost pres-- we were truly presenting these people as the most awful people on the planet, of course, who always kept their comeuppance, but we were saying, like, "These people, like, really do exist."

Glenn: Yeah, that was very important to us. I remember-- I mean, we really wanted to, like, make it feel, even though it was scripted, we wanted to kinda feel improvised. We wanted the acting to be very not sitcomy, and then that went away in Season 2, uh, when we realized, like, it would be funnier--

Rob: When we realized it's a sitcom.

Charlie: Well, there is--

Glenn: It is a sitcom and maybe that's okay.

Charlie: There is some purity to making something where us as the filmmakers, the actors, have no idea what's gonna be funny about it to anyone else.

Glenn: Mm-hmm.

Charlie: Right? So that you really can't rely on any character trait you've come up with. You can't rely on any sort of story element. You really have to invent something from scratch so that the pure inventiveness of it-- It's-it's kind of like the accidental title that we have, which is that, you know, we're not really trying to squeeze Season 1 into a box of, "This is exactly like this other show."

We were really trying to invent our own thing, and Season 2, we're trying to squeeze it into the box of Season 1 in a sense. Like, we're trying to grow on it, but it's also based on something we've done. So, maybe there is, like, a purity to that, which is sort of exciting to watch, which is that it's-- yeah, it could--

Glenn: I wish I could see it objectively. I wish I could look at it objectively. It's just impossible. It's impossible.

Rob: Well, it was definitely not through lack of trying.

Glenn: No.

Rob: We were gri-- we were killing ourselves.

Glenn: We were ki-- we were killing ourselves and we were swinging for the fences as I recall. First of all, I never understood why they let us make the show. I was like, "You-you-- and you want us to write it? We're not write- okay, sure. We're not writers, but we'll do it." And I just thought, like, we may as well swing for the fences and go for it because there's no fucking way the show's ever gonna picked up.

Rob: Now I understand having watched it again. I haven't seen one of those episodes in-- I mean, seriously, I think 10-- well over 10 years.

Glenn: Wow.

Rob: Remember how bad my stomach problems were? Like, I had really bad stomach problems.

Glenn: Oh, right. You had reflux.

Rob: Like I had a-- I had-- well, I had a fucking ulcer-

Glenn: Oh, yeah.

Rob: -and then-

Charlie: Oh, yeah.

Rob: -and then it just, like, suddenly went away, but I realized the way that it went away was I'm looking- I'm looking at the episodes and I'm realizing, well, that-- I weighed like 130 pounds. I didn't-- I barely ate anything. All I did was drink coffee and smoke cigarettes all day long.

Charlie: [laughs] Yeah.

Rob: All day long. I didn't even--

Charlie: Why don't I feel good?

Rob: I didn't even drink alcohol that much, like, during that time period. I was just drinking-- I mean, like, on the weekends, but not every night like I do now.


Charlie: Okay, okay.

Rob: Right, at the time, I was just waking up in the morning, s-- drinking as much coffee as I could to get me through the day, and smoking a ton of cigarettes, and then being like, "What is wrong with my stomach? I don't understand."

Charlie: Uh-huh, right, yeah.

Glenn: Right.

Rob: This doesn't make any sense. I'm a youngish person.

Charlie: How long you've been off coffee now?

Rob: I've been off coffee, I don't know, five years?

Charlie: Yeah, you and coffee don't mix.

Rob: No, don't mix well with the coffee, but I could drink the coffee without the cigarettes, but the combination was tough, but I did that for a good 10 years.

Glenn: Shut up. Uh, guys, this episode brought to you by coffee. Coffee, fuck you, but you guys, you're welcome.

Charlie: This episode also brought to you by cigarettes. Cigarettes.

Glenn: You're dead.

Charlie: [laughs] We're- we're still around. We're still a thing.

Rob: That's true. We're--

Charlie: Cigarettes, you know you want them, but you know we're bad.

Glenn: [laughs] Some of you can resist us, and some of you are just gonna die.


Charlie: Taking aunts and uncles since 1843.


Rob: I-- quitting smoking was one of the hardest things I've ever done. There was a point where I was like, "You know what? I'll shave a good 15 years off my life. I don't care. I love it this much."

Glenn: Right, you almost just gave in. You were like, "Fuck it."

Rob: Yeah, and then--

Charlie: But now in your mid-40s, you're happy you haven't been smoking-

Rob: Oh, yeah.

Charlie: -you know, pack a day since your 20s. [crosstalk] Can you imagine? You would feel very bad right now.

Rob: I'd feel very bad.

Charlie: Or you'd feel totally fine, like certain people we know that, like, smoke and are fine, and they smoke till-- Brought to you by cigarettes. You'll be fine.


Charlie: Brought to you by cigarettes.

Rob: [crosstalk] You'll be fine.

Charlie: Remember that guy-- remember that one guy's dad? He still smokes and he's fine. Cigarettes, still cool.


Glenn: Ah, God, I do miss smoking though. Off. It's delicious. I love it. Every time I-- like, on the rare, rare, rare occasion that-- 'cause I will occasionally-- and it's very rare these days, have a cigarette, and I'm always thinking like, "Oh, this is gonna be gross," and it's not. I love it. I love it.

Rob: The last cigarette I had socially, prior to that, it had been five years, but I smoked like four cigarettes the night of your 40th birthday party.

Glenn: Oh, yeah.

Rob: Everybody. We went to some bar, a karaoke bar.

Glenn: Everybody smoked that night.

Rob: Everybody got so drunk. It was the drunkest I had ever seen David Hornsby.

Glenn: Hornsby was--

Rob: He was-- fun Dave was--

Charlie: Which birthday?

Glenn: Fun Dave was on fire. Fun Dave-- yeah, fun Dave got sloppy.

Charlie: Your 40th?

Glenn: That was my 40th, yeah.

Rob: Glenn's-Glenn's 40th birthday party, so that was five-

Glenn: We went to that karaoke place at Gaslight.

Rob: -five years ago.

Glenn: Gaslight? Gas lamp?

Rob: Yeah.

Glenn: What the hell's the name of that place? Shit.

Rob: David got so unbelievably drunk that night that I don't think he drank for, like, another two years, and the next day, we saw him and he was like, "Yeah, I had a rough night," and apparently, he peed in his dresser.

Glenn: Oh, oh, that's right. Yeah, he got up and Emily--

Rob: Yeah, he woke up and Emily-Emily's like, "David, what are you doing?" And he's like, "I'm going to the bathroom." She's like, "David, wake up," and he's like, "I'm fine, I'm fine," and she's like, "Wake up."

Glenn: "You're peeing in a drawer, David."

Rob: He was pee- he was pissing in his drawer.

Glenn: What a fool.

Rob: In like, his sock drawer.

Glenn: Oh, boy.

Charlie: Yeah.

Rob: And then he was like, "I'm gonna get off the sauce for a little bit," which was-

Charlie: Yeah.

Rob: -probably-

Rob: -good move- probably a good move, yeah.

Glenn: This is not a good-- It's not a good look, yeah. So that was the last time you had a cigarette?

Rob: That was the last time I had a cigarette. I had like, five or six cigarettes.

Glenn: Now--

Rob: And then-then I--

Glenn: Are you like me though? Because I think it's more the chemicals that I want. You know what I'm saying? Like, if somebody hands me an American Spirit, I'm like, "Not interested."

Charlie: No, you want the drugs. You want the- you want the drugs.

Rob: Yeah, I want-- if I'm going, I wanna go all in.

Glenn: I want whatever's in--

Rob: I wanna-- I want a Camel- I want a Camel with no filter.

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: Yeah, absolutely. 'Cause it still got the chemicals in it. Just doesn't have the filter.

Rob: Yeah, yeah.

Glenn: I want whatever they're adding to their toba-- I-- whatever Camel-- whatever Joe Camel's adding to those cigarettes, that's what I want. That's what I want. [unintelligible 00:26:35] to give me, like, real tobacco, I'm like, "This is kinda fucking gross."

Charlie: Yeah, 'cause when you gotta smoke the fake ones in the movies, it's brutal.

Rob: Oh, that shit's not right.

Charlie: It is brutal. It's like-

Glenn: For those of you not in the movie industry-

Charlie: -fish food.

Glenn: -when you smoke cigarettes, you're not really allowed to smoke real cigarettes and things anymore, because it's a hazard to the people around you, so they give you these herbal cigarettes that are just fucking awful. So when you see people smoking in movies now, unless they were shooting in, like, Bucharest or something, it's these herbal things and they're really fucking gross. Really fucking gross.

Charlie: They're bad. They're bad, but then the ritual of it is still nice.

Rob: Yeah.

Glenn: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Charlie: You know, like the lighting something, and the cigarettes. The ritual's nice.


Glenn: The ritual's nice.

Charlie: You'll miss the rituals. We can make a lot of money endorsing things that you're just not allowed-- Can we just like--

Glenn: Oh-

Rob: Wait, you know we should-

Glenn: -that's not a bad idea.

Rob: -we should be endorsing things that we want more of 'cause they'll then send us shit.

Charlie: Just endorsing cigarettes and porn. Like, let's just do that and be like, "Hey, cigarettes and porn company, we'll-we'll endorse you."

Rob: Yeah, we'll endorse you.

Charlie: And then make a lot of money.

Rob: Definitely, but any kind of booze, right?

Glenn: Mm-hmm.

Rob: You get some booze.

Charlie: Booze, cigarettes, and porn.

Glenn: Porn, you love us, you'll never admit it. [laughs]


Rob: Well, I guess it just sort of ended, didn't it?

Glenn: Well, yeah, but this-this is good. I mean, it-it just-- you know. [snores]

Charlie: You're still tired? Still [unintelligible 00:27:53] Did that invigorate you at all? Did you get less tired?

Glenn: I do feel- I do feel invigorated. I do. That was invigorating.

Charlie: So is it just an engagement thing, if you're not engaged you're gonna feel tired?

Glenn: Yeah, but it takes a lot to get me engaged these days, 'cause everything bores me. Everything's boring.

Charlie: That sounds like depression.

Glenn: Oh, definitely. Oh, absolutely. I've often--

Charlie: Have you looked in-- have you look-- are you looking into that?

Glenn: I have looked into it. I do--

Charlie: They have medicine.

Glenn: Yeah, but it's like, you know, then I'll miss the manic phase.

Charlie: Mm-hmm.

Glenn: You know, 'cause when I'm manic, that's-that's like--

Rob: That's when you're fun.

Glenn: That's-- oh, man, you know, manic.

Charlie: Everybody's fun when they're manic.

Glenn: Yeah, I think I- I think I have like, a very, very minor case of bipolar disorder. [chuckles]

Charlie: Okay.

Glenn: Where like, you know what I mean?

Charlie: Mm-hmm.

Glenn: I go through like extreme highs and-- or like, not like, semi-extreme highs.

Charlie: Don't know if that's something you can have a minor case of. Can you just have a splash of it?

Glenn: Oh, I have a splash of bipolar. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I'm self-diagnosing here, which is what any good person does.

Charlie: [laughs] Well, just poke around the internet and look for symptoms and see if anything matches up with how you're feeling. You should be able to find something. [chuckles]

Glenn: Yeah, yeah. It's hard for me to get real jazzed up about stuff though, and stay engaged. I just-- I do get fucking bored very easily, you know? But this is fun. I found this very stimulating. Megan, what do you think?

Charlie: We should give her a mic.

Glenn: I'm getting a thumbs up from Megan.

Charlie: We should- we should give her a microphone.

Rob: Absolutely. [laughs]

Glenn: [laughs] Yeah, right.

Rob: I don't know why she doesn't- [crosstalk] she doesn't want one.

Glenn: It's not a good look.

Charlie: Do you want to be allowed to speak?

Rob: No, she doesn't want one.

Glenn: Well, I know, but she could chime in every now and then if she wants.

Rob: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Glenn: I mean, it would be nice to-- She's very funny, very smart, very intel-- no, thumbs down.

Charlie: Thumbs down.

Rob: You're getting a thumbs down.

Charlie: Getting a thumbs down.

Glenn: She does not want to be exposed the way we are.


Charlie: She knows this is career suicide.


Rob: Well, we've learned a lot today.

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: Uh, we've learned that, uh-- we've learned about Crunch Gym,

Glenn: Gosh, what a fun trip down memory lane, guys. What a fun trip down memory lane.

Rob: We've learned Glenn's touch with a splash of bipolarism, self-diagnosed.

Charlie: Uh-huh.

Glenn: It's possible. It's possible.

Rob: This show is brought to you by depression.

Glenn: Depression, we're gonna get you.

Charlie: Depression, there's always cigarettes, booze, porn, and crack.

Rob: [laughs] And Sunny.

Charlie: And It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.

Glenn: And, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia [crosstalk].

Rob: You know, that's always something nice to hear when people say--

Charlie: The healthier choice, yeah, yeah.

Rob: People say, you know, I've-I've-I've gotten that many times over the years. People say, they're like, they've had a rough go, or they're sad or depressed [crosstalk]

Glenn: Those are my favorite.

Rob: Yeah.

Charlie: Well, yes.

Glenn: Those are my fav- that's my favorite feedback.

Rob: And they watch Sunny, and it makes them laugh.

Charlie: That's- that's the best-case scenario. You make a thing, you put it on the world, you hope it reaches people, touches people, moves them in their lives, that's a nice thing. It's good. Thank you for telling us when that happens.

Glenn: Yeah, we like hearing that. It's very gratifying.

Charlie: Snap Glenn out of his depression.

Glenn: Sure, a little bit. I mean, yeah.

Rob: But don't do it too much, 'cause then he'll get bored.

Charlie: Then he'll be bored of you saying it.

Rob: Yes.

Charlie: Yes, I know.

Glenn: Yeah. Hey, guys, I'm gonna take a nap.



[00:30:53] [END OF AUDIO]


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