Charlie Has Cancer | Always Sunny Podcast – The Always Sunny Podcast
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Episode #4

Charlie Has Cancer

Rob doesn't know where his nose and lips are.

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4. Charlie Has Cancer

On the pod, the guys revisit Charlie Has Cancer from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia Season 1, Episode 4.

Glenn: You ever like listen to those like, like news shows or like a podcast where someone comes on, they're like, "You know, I think--"

Rob: All of them do.

Charlie: Oh, man.

Glenn: I'm just like oh, God, why?

Charlie: Yeah, there was one particular person, I don't remember who it was on NPR, that was like, I would- I would almost crash my car into a tree on the drive into the office 'cause of the--

Glenn: On purpose?

Charlie: Oh, yeah. Just to end it all, because I couldn't handle that between every word.

Glenn: Yeah. There's one guy on there that I feel like, uh, like, well, I can't tell.

Charlie: [unintelligible 00:00:29] Where we landing on swearing on this? We gonna beep out the curse words or no? Just anything-

Rob: I think this is anybody who's listening to this is-

Charlie: I think-- Well, I'm excited-

Rob: TVMA.

Charlie: -for the children to listen.

Rob: I think the children are gonna listen either way.

Charlie: All right. Listen, up you be little fucks.


Charlie: Very nostalgic to watch that particular episode because as listener at home might not know that actually was our pilot. Certain scenes from that are from the pilot and that that was based on the home movie version of the show that we cooked up.

Glenn: It was, yeah, it was actually a combination of the first two home movies that we used to sell the show. That first scene where I come over to your apartment and, you know, I ask you if you have a basketball. That was actually the impetus behind the entire show.

Rob: Mm-hmm.

Glenn: That was the scene that started at all. That was before we'd ever conceived of it as a show or-or short film or anything. I remember Rob coming over to my apartment and being like, "Hey, I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about this scene and just laughing my ass off," and you coming over and being like, I-I started thinking about this, and I, I wanted to do something where we took a subject that is traditionally impossible to make comedic and figure out a way to make it funny. And that was the challenge. And you wrote it. I don't-- Did you write it in the middle of the night?

Rob: Yeah, I wrote it that-that night.

Glenn: You woke up and wrote it?

Rob: Yeah.

Glenn: Yeah. You were like half asleep, half dreaming about it or something.

Rob: No, I was just up late probably from all the coffee and cigarettes.

Charlie: Let me ask you something about, this will be an interesting question because we just watched this five minutes ago and I can't remember whether or not we saw something that was in it, but in the one that we watch, which we switched it to a basketball, which I think isn't as good as coming over for sugar, but that the guys were waiting for you in the car. We shot a thing where you then hop in the car. Was that-

Rob: Yes.

Charlie: Was that in? It was cut out right?

Rob: It was not. Right.

Glenn: We got it.

Rob: Yeah, we cut it.

Charlie: We shot that in Pasadena because we needed bricks.

Rob: Correct.

Charlie: We couldn't find bricks anywhere.

Glenn: I don't know why, but we did go to Philly, so I don't know why we didn't shoot in Philly. I think because we added that scene or something like that. So we had to shoot in LA but-

Rob: Yeah but the op-- So the original scene, that one scene, it was a little bit different from what we wound up using in the home movie. We did a bunch of improv on the day, but then when we wound up cutting it and having it work, we then took that scene almost verbatim and put it into the pilot that we shot for FX. In fact, your performances are very specific. We were recreating what we'd already done.

Glenn: We were, and by the way that, I don't know if you remember this, but we also shot that scene. That scene we shot probably 10 times.

Rob: Yeah.

Glenn: Over the course of like two years. We were just experimenting. We were trying to, we were just working it out. You know what I mean? It was like almost like working on a song.

Rob: Well, just trying to find ways to make terrible, terrible, terrible characters into funny, relatable people.

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: And so it just take, it just took time.

Glenn: A lot of awkward pauses in that scene. I was very fascinated with the idea of like very, very awkward kind of comedy, you know, just based on what were probably my biggest influences at the time, which was the British office and Curb Your Enthusiasm just so much like ugh, awkward, uncomfortable comedy kind of stuff-

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: -that we

Charlie: I still like that.

Glenn: Yeah. Yeah. I like it too. Yeah.

Charlie: We do-we do less and less of it.

Glenn: We do less and less of it.

Charlie: But I like it.

Glenn: Yeah. Yeah. But we shot that scene multiple, multiple times. By the time we shot that pilot version for FX, that was probably the 10th time we shot it or something. I mean, it's crazy.

Rob: But that episode we jammed a lot of stuff in that episode.

Glenn: Lot of story.

Rob: Yeah. A lot of story.

Glenn: Mm-hmm.

Rob: Some of it, you know, a little bit problematic, but we've addressed that over the years and, you know, we are making a show about terrible people.

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: Uh, however, you know, we have certain blind spots that we have admitted to over the years and we-we try to ameliorate that as we go but I think overall, from a structural standpoint, it seems to hold together pretty well.

Charlie: This is a little off-topic. Rob, I noticed you're talking so close to the microphone, laughs] that your lips are like touching the little pop card thing.

Rob: They are?


Charlie: Yeah, you were like, you were, you were talking like that. Your lips were like on the- on the thing.

Glenn: He wants to suck it, but it's too big. It's too big.

Rob: You know what it is. I think-I think that my, um--

Charlie: Megan, is he coming in hot or what?

Rob: No, I-I can't hear myself very well. And so I-I thought maybe that's just the way the mics are designed. [laughs] You're not seeing me right now, but I'm like, really?

Charlie: I mean, you were right. You were nestled in there.

Glenn: You should not have to crane your neck that far forward. You should not have to see a chiropractor after doing a podcast.

Rob: There was also kind something kind of, and it feel very-- [crosstalk]

Charlie: And to be clear I wasn't judging you but feeling insecure about myself. Like oh, my God maybe I'm-

Glenn: I'm not close enough to the mic.

Charlie: -I'm not close enough to the mic. Yeah.

Glenn: Cause I-I can hear you perfectly.

Rob: I sound like I'm in a different room.

Glenn: No.

Charlie: Yeah.

Charlie: Not in my cans.

Rob: Oh, okay. Great.

Glenn: Uh, listener, when-when I say cans, I'm talking about headphones. Um, that episode was directed by Mr. Rob McElheny himself, who originally, when we shut the original version of the home movie was not in the show at all. Just wanted to write and direct.

Rob: Correct.

Glenn: Did not wanna act in it so Mr. David Hornsby, who eventually, of course, went on to play Rickety Cricket, played the original character whose name was Rob.

Rob: Mm-hmm.

Glenn: And, uh, Rob just wanted to direct and--

Charlie: Let's get into that for a second.

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: Now, why were you thinking you were done with the acting thing? 'Cause you then, you know, did, obviously, you've done Mac on the show, you're killing it in Mythic Quests. Uh, you've gone on to do some other work here and there.


Glenn: Has he?

Charlie: If you think, not a lot, I know it's not a priority for you, but-but you're on Lost, I think you said a line on Lost. [laughter] Um, I think they cut you outta Game of Thrones. The point is though, I know you, like, I know you like being in front of the camera so why was it at that age? Let's-let's go back to young Rob-

Rob: Mm-hmm.

Charlie: -and be like, what was it that made you think, you know, I'm just gonna be behind the camera?

Rob: Well, I don't know that I was making that like, clear of a distinction. I was just afraid that if there wasn't somebody behind-- It's not like we had like playback or anything. So it was like holding the camera and looking at it. I was just afraid that we wouldn't have enough people.

Glenn: It was a QC issue for you? It was a quality control thing.

Rob: Yeah, like--

Glenn: But also probably, and I-I don't wanna put words in your mouth, correct me if I'm wrong, but I mean, we were friends with Hornsby at the time and Hornsby was just one of the funniest people we'd ever met. So I think you probably were like, Well, somebody's gotta be behind the cameras watching this thing as it goes down to make sure it's working and then Hornsby can just play the character, he's a good actor.

Rob: I also like, and I'm-I'm-I'm really not saying this to out of any kind of like false humility, I'm really not. I never considered myself like a super funny performer. I always thought I could write funny stuff. I remember when I gave you that script and I was like, I don't think I could pull this off, but I feel like maybe the two of you could make this scene really funny, and then sure enough you did. So then my thought was like, well, why not just populate with really funny people that can make this dark material really funny?

Glenn: Right.

Rob: And I could see myself even in this episode, you know, for the first year or two really trying to find my way. And in fact, it'll come up more and more often, but I saw things that Charlie was doing in that episode that I know that I like directly ripped off.

Glenn: Mm-hmm.

Rob: Like later in the season and then like in season two. [unintelligible 00:07:22]

Charlie: Yeah, no, we all know. [laughter]

Rob: Yeah.

Charlie: But it's fine. It's like, I- it's like, you know--

Glenn: We've all stolen each other's moves.

Charlie: Yeah, we share the wealth. It's-it's-it's osmosis was what happens. It's not intentional. It's not like, oh, I'm gonna do that thing. It's just that.

Rob: No, no, it's just like, Oh, I saw somebody do that and it was funny and in the moment I'm trying to be funny and I just-

Glenn: Yeah. It just comes out. You're-you-you're registering it subconsciously as funny, and then you sort of end up doing it, but emulating it.

Rob: And I didn't think I have enough experience at the time being funny. So I was just like around these really funny people. Almost like-

Glenn: Well, you were always a funny guy, but you did not think you were a funny performer because as an actor you had done, you know, mostly drama at that point.

Rob: That's right. I mean, yeah. But not even, not even a lot of that. Mostly I had done a lot of, uh, waiting tables.

Glenn: Yeah. Did it occur to you that maybe drama wasn't the way to go when you got cut out of every single fucking film you shot?

Rob: [laughs] Yeah, I mean, there's, there is evidence out there to really suggest that I should have given up a long time ago.

Glenn: What were those movies that you got cut out? Tell-- [crosstalk] Okay.

Charlie: Yeah, but-but-but yes, but before you get into that, there was zero evidence to support you being a writer-director. So its-

Rob: Yeah, it's even less. It's even less.

Charlie: -it's-it's interesting that you were like, yeah, this is- this is gonna--

Glenn: A lot of hubris.

Charlie: Yeah, This is gonna be the thing.

Glenn: A lot of hubris in there.

Rob: Without a doubt. Without a doubt. Yeah. Yeah. No, there was no evidence to suggest that I should have succeeded at either of those disciplines.

Glenn: A lot of unsubstantiated confidence in your own ability to pull something off.

Rob: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, that's that. Again, I think that goes back we were talking--

Charlie: Show business, in general. You just summed it up. The only way that anyone ever does anything is to say, "Hey, I think I can do this with absolute." Unless you wake up looking like a supermodel.

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: And then you're like, Yeah, maybe people will wanna watch my face and--

Glenn: Yeah, if I can learn how to talk good, I know people wanna look at my face. So the rest of it'll work itself.

Charlie: Me start talking good-

Glenn: Me start talking good after today and then maybe--

Charlie: -and movies come me way.

Glenn: Yes.

Rob: I just heard Tina Faye was just, I just heard her say that this exact thing she said acting pretty much is 99%, having a face that people wanna look at.

Charlie: It helps to have a great face.

Rob: She was saying it's really attractive or just really interesting to look at. Doesn't necessarily have to be like really attractive, but it's just a face that people are wanna look at.

Glenn: Absolutely it-it does do a lot of the work for you when you have a really compelling face. You know what I mean? When your face is constantly scrunched up like Clint Eastwood, you know what I mean? You get-- Well, he is also just a very good--

Rob: But he's also really handsome. But then you also can win the war of attrition if you're the only person that can like really put in- 'cause you're willing to put in 12 hours a day and write everything and constantly keep creating it and then saying, "Well, if you want this, then I have to be in it." Then you kind of force your way in.

Charlie: That's a-- Yeah.

Rob: And that's what I did.

Charlie: A lot of people do that.

Rob: That's what I did.

Glenn: Yeah. More and more these days.

Rob: So I don't know that people wanna look at my face, but they're being forced to.

Glenn: I like your face. I think your face looks great on camera.

Rob: Oh, thanks.

Glenn: I-I do.

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: I think it's more interesting than mine certainly. I think- I think I sort of have a neutral face, like kind of good-looking, but not that good-looking. And I feel like I have to go pretty big with my acting in order to remain interesting. I have to make big choices as an actor. Like I tried early on in my career, to just kind of do that thing of like, okay, I'm just gonna feel the feelings of the character and just know that it'll shine through my eyes. And what I saw was just fucking flat dead performances-


Glenn: -across the board. I was just like, "Oh, my God, every fucking thing I do--"

Charlie: I thought a bit of that too. Where you're like, "I really was feeling that." And like, "And really dropped into it." Then you watch it, and you're like, "Oh, there's nothing there."

Glenn: Dead eyes.

Charlie: Dead eyes.

Glenn: Just dead eyes.

Charlie: He's got dead eyes.

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: That's my Dr. Larry Meyer's impression.

Rob: Of talking of Ethan Hawke.

Charlie: He came-- I love Ethan Hawke. He came up to me and--

Glenn: Wait, sorry, who?

Rob: Dr. Larry Meyers.

Charlie: Dr. Larry Mey- Larry Meyers.

Rob: You remember he had the beanie babies?

Charlie: Yes, I had gotten a job directing downtown theater, mostly naked men.

Rob: I think guys have told these stories to each other- [crosstalk]

Charlie: I know.

Rob: -for the last 15 years and it's a series of them not remembering.

Glenn: This is not for you.

Charlie: It's not all for you, Rob. We're not performing for you. You're not directing our lives.

Glenn: God, tell the story of Dr. Larry Meyers.

Rob: That you've heard 10 times. [laughs]

Charlie: Dr. Larry Meyers I told him. I bumped into him. He had a play called Beanie Baby Addiction. You remember this, right?

Glenn: Oh, right. Yes, I do.

Charlie: And then, it was the kind of thing where it was like 90 monologues. I was like, "Maybe we could cut it down to like eight." And he's like, "Fine." And then, uh, yeah-

Glenn: Fine,

Charlie: -don't do too much director stuff, that's fine, I just need the money. And, then there would be like a kid who'd come over from New Jersey. He was like 18 and he'd do his monologue. And I'd be like, "All right, let's talk about like, who do you think you're talking to in the scene?" Or whatever. And Larry would cut it and he'd be like, "I think he should be wearing bicycle shorts and lifting weights." And then his dad would get him back in the truck and drive him to New Jersey. And we'd never see the kid again. Anyway, Larry stopped me on the street and said, "Hi." And this was years ago. And I told him I was doing a play with Ethan Hawke. And he goes, "Ethan Hawke has dead eyes.


Charlie: Just dead eyes" I'm like, "Well, I disagree, Larry. I disagree." Ethan Hawke, one of the best.

Glenn: One of the best, absolutely. Fucking incredible and an amazing artist.

Charlie: Yea, love him. A true artist. Dr. Larry Meyers. That makes me think of the-

Charlie: Now, that's a director, Rob.

Glenn: -of Sweet Dee's acting teacher.

Charlie: Yes.

Glenn: That character's name was Dr. Meyers, wasn't it?

Charlie: Yes.

Glenn: And that was based on Dr. Larry Meyers.

Charlie: Dr. Larry Meyers. You know what I do think, though, your voice is a part of it too. Right, like Keanu Reaves, always got a rap for like, not being a great actor. Obviously, the man is a very good actor. He can carry like a major motion picture and you will love that movie and be highly entertained. But, because he has this affectation when he talks-

Glenn: Mm-hmm.

Charlie: -you know, that's going to not sound great if you're doing, like, uh, Shakespeare or--

Glenn: Yeah, if you're playing Hamlet.

Charlie: Yeah, you're playing Hamlet. So it's just that voice but the actual belief of the words that he's saying, and the conveying of it is fine. It's just, if you're stuck doing that's gonna sound--

Rob: I venture to say that people watch Keanu Reeves movies for his face more than his voice.

Charlie: No, it's. I'm saying the same thing. I'm saying his voice does a big part of it.

Glenn: But I think it's a- it's a vibe thing-

Charlie: His-his face is a big part of it.

Glenn: -there's an energy. You just like him.

Charlie: Yes.

Glenn: You just like him and you want him to succeed. And that, in and of itself, is like talent or just genetics. I don't know. You know, he's compelling to watch. There's no doubt about it. This still makes me laugh to this day, thinking of Keanu Reeves in Point Break, a movie that I absolutely love, where when they find out that the FBI wants to put him undercover, as a surfer, Keanu Reeves has, I believe this is the exact line, I could be wrong, or maybe I'm paraphrasing. But his line is, and said like this, "The FBI wants to pay me to learn how to surf?"


Glenn: Like as if the subtext behind that is like, "Why would they pick me for that? No, one's gonna buy that, bro."


Glenn: "Pick somebody else, man.

Charlie: Who's gonna believe I'm a surfer? Like what?

Glenn: What do they even like sound like?" [laughs]

Charlie: Exactly.

Glenn: Where do I even start? I'm from Idaho, man.


Charlie: I'm a football player, dude. I don't know shit about surfing, bro.


Rob: He was- oh, he's Utah, Johnny Utah.

Glenn: Johnny Utah. Idaho you--


Rob: I was gonna say that doesn't sound right.

Charlie: Yeah, yeah, it is.

Glenn: Well, no, I know he's not Johnny Utah, from Utah.

Rob: I think so.

Glenn: Oh, get the fuck outta here. His character is from Utah?

Charlie: No, it's like a code name.

Rob: That was like his nickname. Utah.

Glenn: I think that was his fucking name. I think that was the character's actual name.

Charlie: Yeah, maybe.

Rob: Johnny Utah? What did he play at the University of Utah? Well, hold on a second, because they referenced that.

Glenn: I can't remember what

Rob: Roach said. I remember them playing football on the beach.

Glenn: Yeah, he blows his knee out and that's what--

Rob: He blows his knee out and then Swayze says, Bohdi says, "Don't you guys know who this is? This is Johnny Utah."

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: And then they remember him playing. Maybe it was at state or something.

Glenn: That's right. And then they're like oh, fuck yeah, and then he's in and that's why. Not 'cause he's anything like a surfer, dude. Like the FBI wants to pay me to learn how to surf? Dude. I'm fucked, they're going to find out like right away, dude. Bummer, dude.

Charlie: Bummer, man.

Glenn: Totally not bodacious.



Glenn: Do you guys have any other stories about making the FX Pilot that you think would be interesting to the listener, because--

Rob: Well, we shot a good chunk of that in Philadelphia.

Glenn: We did.

Rob: And then a good chunk of it in Los Angeles. And oddly enough, if anybody is interested enough to go back and experience this, as we are, which is to watch the episodes again, you'll notice that Charlie's apartment looks like the set of a grade school production.

Glenn: Of the Nightman Cometh. Oh, it looks like The Nightman Cometh set.

Rob: Yes, yes. Interesting fact, that was not a set. That was a real apartment that we painted, apparently, to look like a set.

Charlie: Actually, I wonder if we even painted it or if that's what--

Glenn: No, we painted it.

Charlie: Or if we just dressed it.

Glenn: Oh, you mean maybe somebody else had painted it for some other show or something?

Charlie: Yeah, 'cause we were, I don't think we--

Glenn: I think we painted it.

Charlie: I don't think we were painting things yet, or anything like that. I think it was like, go in, dress the place. Think about that pilot. Think about the budget of that pilot.

Glenn: Right.

Rob: We didn't have a ton of money. And in fact, there's a scene that happens, maybe no one else can notice it, but there's a scene that happens where I'm in the street with Carmen having, I think it's a part of the montage, and you can very clearly see that I still have like the remnants of a black eye.

Glenn: Oh, from the makeup.

Rob: Which has not happened in the story yet.

Glenn: Right.

Rob: But we had shot the scene already. We had a strong makeup department, but I don't think we had good video playback so, I don't think you could see it-

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: -on camera.

Glenn: Yeah, the whole thing was pretty-pretty rent.

Charlie: We were finding our way.

Rob: Pretty low rent.

Glenn: Rob, two of your buddies from Philly are in that episode.

Rob: Yes, Dennis Hart and Dennis Hogan.

Glenn: Yeah, and they play the construction workers.

Rob: They play the construction worker number one and construction worker number two.

Glenn: That's right.

Charlie: Hogan and Heart, the classic comedy duo. I love it.

Glenn: That is, by the way, a great comedy duo.

Rob: Yeah, they've come back in quite a few times.

Glenn: I know they came back in the world series defense episode, but they been in other ones too? I think it was just that.

Rob: Maybe not, maybe it was just that yeah.

Charlie: I think it was a call back in the same scene where they're like, they see me fighting the mascot.

Glenn: That guy's beating on the- on the Philly-- [crosstalk]

Charlie: Is that a hate crime? I don't think that's a crime.

Glenn: I don't think that's a hate crime.

Charlie: Let's pound on him anyway.

Glenn: Should we pound on him anyway?


Rob: Yeah, totally. I just spoke with Dennis Hogan this morning.

Glenn: Rob, why don't you tell people what my character's name is based on?

Rob: I have a number of friends named Dennis.

Glenn: Yup.

Rob: And then one of my best friend's name is Tom Reynolds.

Glenn: Right.

Rob: And so, I just fused those together for Dennis Reynolds.

Charlie: Oh.

Rob: But who knows? I mean, we were knocking around all sorts of different ideas at the time.

Glenn: No, that is what it was.

Rob: I think that's what it was, right?

Glenn: No, absolutely, you had two close friends, Dennis Hart and Dennis Hogan, who were in the episode. So, you went with Dennis, and then you didn't want it to be their last name so it was a shout-out to old Tommy Reynolds.

Rob: And then we went with Mac and then Charlie, Charlie was just Charlie, cause--

Glenn: Well Mac was your name. I mean, I used to call you Mac. Everybody called you Mac, that was your name. That was your actual nickname.

Charlie: Well, because when we did the original like home version of it, we weren't changing our characters' names.

Rob: Yeah.

Glenn: That's right.

Rob: And my friends have had add to stop calling me Mac, 'cause that's what they used to call me 'cause now it's weird to call me that.

Charlie: I will say, the one really great thing about me not changing my name, is when someone yells at me in the streets. I don't have that like hey, Cramer moment. I assume they are just such big fans of me, as the person, that it can fill my cup without knocking me down a peg.

Rob: Yeah.

Glenn: Yeah, yeah.

Rob: We can talk about the name Sweet D.

Glenn: Oh, yeah.

Rob: Which is a tad problematic.

Glenn: It's got an interesting etymology.

Rob: When I first moved to Los Angeles, I moved with Chris Bacchus, buddy of mine from New York, and we very early on, we were only out here for a few weeks. Chris is a very handsome person. I think we may have talked about Chris already-

Glenn: We did.

Rob: -on the first podcast, yeah. We're at this barbecue, and he met Mira Sorvino--

Glenn: No, I was- no, yeah, I was there too. No, that wasn't a barbecue. We went to a couple of Tom Morello's barbecues, but he--

Rob: No, this was a night where we played, um, we played that game the running charades.

Glenn: But that was not a barbecue. That was a game night in west Hollywood at Samantha.

Rob: Yes.

Glenn: Was it her house?

Rob: Yes.

Glenn: Oh, yeah.

Rob: And so, I mean, this was now 17 years ago or something like that.

Glenn: Yeah, this would've been back in 2004.

Rob: Yeah, it was a group of friends and Tom Morello was one of the people there. Tom Morello, who's the lead guitarist of Rage Against The Machine, Audio Slave. One of the greatest musicians alive.

Glenn: Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah.

Rob: Um, his girlfriend at the time, now wife, everybody kept referring to her as Sweet Dee. And I always thought, God, that's an interesting, funny name, Sweet Dee. Why do they call her that, I don't know? And then I kind of forgot about it.

Glenn: Right.

Rob: For like three years. Three years I forgot about it. And then when I sat down to write the show, I don't know why it popped into my head. I was like, maybe they call her Sweet Dee, that's kind of fun. Yeah, that's just a funny name.

Charlie: Touching your lips are touching.


Glenn: He wants to suck it, I'm telling you. He wants to suck it so bad, but it's not the right shape. It's not the right shape.

Charlie: You don't feel that scraping against the front of your face, man? Anyway, continue with this riveting story.

Glenn: Yeah, he likes it.

Rob: It's soft [laughs].

Charlie: Yeah, you're in it though-

Rob: It's good.

Charlie: -you're--

Glenn: It's like sucking a muppet stick.

Rob: Yeah.

Glenn: You're still kind of, you're friendly with Tom, I'm friendly with Tom. Uh, I haven't seen-

Rob: Yeah.

Glenn: -his-- Now, they're married right? I mean it's-

Rob: Yes, and so we've run-

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: -into each other, over the years. But again, like we didn't know that this stupid show was gonna go forever. I also done-- Like, uh, I didn't put it together that I was stealing this person's-

Glenn: No.

Rob: -name, which of course I was.

Glenn: I didn't even- I didn't put it together either even though I knew who she was, too.

Rob: Then I got word from Bacchus like, "Hey, Denise is not psyched." And I was like, "Fuck, of course, she's not psyched because I've--" And it turns out that it was a nickname that Tom gave her.-

Glenn: Oh it's like [crosstalk].

Rob: And so it was like their very meaningful name.

Glenn: Yes, yes. And I-I've felt guilt-ridden about it for years.

Rob: And you ruined it.

Glenn: I know. I know.

Rob: You ruined that special thing that they had.

Glenn: I know, I know.

Rob: Does that make you feel powerful that-

Glenn: No.

Rob: -you were able to ruin something, and-

Glenn: No-

Rob: -someone as-as interesting--

Glenn: -it makes me feel really bad.

Charlie: I'm gonna come- I'm gonna come in here, in your defense, for a second.

Glenn: Okay.

Charlie: You-you don't own every- even if it's your personal pet. Now, if it was like your- every time you said the name, you put a picture of her face up there and like-

Glenn: Mm-hmm.

Charlie: -but that-that's-that's you don't own, that's not like their-their--

Rob: It is very specific.

Glenn: It's just very specific and I think-

Charlie: It is very specific, yeah.

Glenn: -what was happening, like in the beginning, nobody watched the show, so there's, nobody gives a shit, and then all of a sudden it becomes popular. And then, people are like, "Oh, I had noticed that people call you Sweet Dee."

Charlie: Oh, yeah-oh, yeah-

Glenn: Is it named after that show?

Charlie: -I see your point.

Rob: And then, she's gotta be like, "No, they stole my name."

Charlie: Well look, yeah, I have that issue with my good college buddy, Brendan McPoyle, which, um-


Rob: Yes-yes.

Charlie: -uh, you know, we should-we were doing-

Rob: Whoops.

Charlie: -as like a cool shout-out. Like, it wouldn't it be fun to hear your name on the show and then, like--

Glenn: Now it's, uh-

Charlie: Yeah, cause-cause it--

Glenn: -now it's associated with not the-

Charlie: Yeah, the characters-

Glenn: -most mentally strong.

Charlie: -yeah, the characters take on their own life and--

Rob: Yeah-yeah, and then all of a sudden--

Charlie: Brendan, I'm sorry man, I'm it's, uh--

Rob: Denise, I'm Tom, Denise-

Charlie: Yeah-

Rob: -I'm so-

Charlie: -actually it's Rob's fault-

Rob: -I'm really, really sorry.

Charlie: -Brendan's Rob's fault. I told-I tried to talk him out of it.

Rob: "I don't even know you Brendan, so I don't--

Glenn: Yeah, I don't give a shit. Is that an earthquake?

Rob: Oh, we're having an earthquake right now.

Charlie: Are we having an earthquake?

Rob: Oh, whoa.

Charlie: I don't think so, are we?

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: Yeah, that was an earthquake.

Glenn: That was-that was an earthquake. It certainly sounded like one-

Rob: Yeah.

Glenn: -or was that you, did you fart?

Charlie: I didn't feel anything rumble though. -

Rob: You didn't? [laughs]

Glenn: I--

Meg: [unintelligible 00:22:06]

Glenn: I heard the rumble-

Charlie: I like--

Glenn: -but I didn't feel it.


Charlie: Yeah, I heard a rumble, but I didn't feel it.-

Glenn: Listen, man, this is one of the newer buildings. It's probably very earthquake safe and, you know, that's pretty cool.

Rob: I'm gonna say we had an earthquake.

Glenn: I heard it.

Rob: I think we didn't get it.

Charlie: It's more fun for the listener at home if we've just been through an earthquake.

Rob: Yeah, that's-

Glenn: I-

Rob: -exciting.

Glenn: It certainly seemed like an earthquake to me.

Charlie: Megan's looking it up.

Glenn: I have been hit up multiple times, as I think you guys have, on social media about like-

Rob: Mythic Quest, about Mythic Quest.

Glenn: -who's the Thrice-- No, nobody's talking about that. Everyone wants to know who the Thrice fan is.

Charlie: Oh.

Rob: I don't know what Thrice is.

Glenn: And here's the thing, I don't know about you guys. I have never fucking heard of that band. I have never heard any of their music. I apologize if they're a great band and they've got fans out there. I'm not saying they're bad, I've never-

Rob: Mm-hmm.

Glenn: -heard them before. So, that was a choice made by the set decorator of the art department-

Charlie: Yeah, the art--

Glenn: -on the show to stick some Thrice stickers up there. And we didn't know it was a band, we didn't know, and now all of a sudden, there's all these Thrice stickers and-- God knows, has it done anything for their careers? Has it-has it helped you guys out Thrice? I like to think so. You know, maybe, I don't know, unless your music's shit, in which case, you just simply don't deserve it.

Charlie: Well, it can't be-

Rob: But I'm not--

Charlie: -that bad if they have fans who are reaching out excited about the stickers. So, you know, they're reaching somebody.

Glenn: Right, they are reaching somebody-

Charlie: Um--

Glenn: Well, good for you with Thrice.

Charlie: Yeah, Thrice stickers everywhere.

Glenn: Mm-hmm. Everywhere, I don't know what that band is. And I apologize Thrice. I don't know.

Charlie: I wonder how they named that band. They were like, "Twice? No, that's not good enough.

Glenn: Yeah-

Charlie: What about--"

Glenn: What's more than Twice?

Charlie: Thrice.

Glenn: Oh, that's one more.

Charlie: Yeah-yeah-yeah, one more.

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: All right-

Glenn: Yeah, what about, fourice-fourice-four--

Charlie: Fourice. No, that don't work--

Glenn: No, it doesn't have a ring to it.

Charlie: -that don't-- We'll stick with Thrice.

Glenn: Right. Okay, Thrice it is.

Charlie: All right. First things first, stickers.

Glenn: Hurray.


Charlie: Oh, another interesting thing about this episode, which we picked up on, is a lot of our music cues that we used for the rest of the run of the show.

Glenn: We found them.

Charlie: Yeah, which was from a library of music. By the way, which is rented out everywhere. Like, you'll hear the Sunny transition-

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: -songs, and the--

Glenn: It's a very popular library of music, it's used in a lot of commercials and stuff.

Rob: It's being used in this podcast right now.

Charlie: It is?

Rob: Yes.

Glenn: Has that been decided?

Rob: Well, Megan's been cutting them together and using them.

Charlie: I don't know, it's-it's above-above our budget.

Glenn: I think we might want to consider using a Thrice song.

Rob: Okay, so let's talk about the--

Glenn: Did we have an earthquake, Meg?

Meg: No.

Charlie: No, we didn't, somebody rolled a cart down the hallway.

Rob: [laughs] Somebody rolled a cart down the hallway. That's how shell-shocked we are in California. Like, we are ready at any moment for that shit to go down.

Glenn: Yeah.

Rob: First earthquake I ever felt was in our editing suite on Seward and we were cutting season one or season two of Sunny. You remember that?

Glenn: You didn't feel any earthquakes prior to that?

Rob: No, it was a big one, I remember it was a big one.

Glenn: I don't remember that.

Charlie: I remember we had a big one season four when we were shooting in Culver City. This is how I remember it, because, you know, I don't know if you guys to have this, but my-my family's always like, "Oh, California, why would you wanna live there? All the earthquakes and stuff." And you're like, "You know, it's not constantly earthquakes. You might have a little rumble here and there, but it's pretty fine." They're like, "I don't know. I would never do it." You know, and then my sister was visiting and of course, like the one week she's visiting, cause we have a pretty, like the biggest earthquake I've had.

Glenn: Shit, really?

Charlie: Just reinforcing their-


Charlie: -hysteria.

Glenn: Uh, that's funny.

Charlie: Do you guys remember the first time we saw the editors cut?

Glenn: Oh.

Charlie: The abortion one, where it was full of record scratches?

Glenn: Oh, shit.

Charlie: And like- like--

Glenn: - I don't remember that. Ugh.

Charlie: And we had-and we had hired like a composer?


Glenn: Right, we tried to work with a composer and then we realized this is taking way too long.

Charlie: And as like, young people making something, what you start to realize is anytime you make anything, the first time you see it, you're like, "Oh, this is a disaster."

Rob: Yeah, we've ruined everything. We've ruined our lives.

Charlie: Beca- only because-

Glenn: Yeah, we've fucked it up.

Charlie: -the journey from what's in your mind to what's actually what you shoot, what it feels like on the day, to what's actually there. There's a process of a different lens each time, right? It's one- it's one thing in your head, it's another thing on the page, it's another thing on the day and--

Glenn: You find it in the edit. I mean, and now luckily, we've been doing this for so long and we've worked with the same editors for so long, that now we walk into an editor's cut and we're like, "Well--"

Charlie: It's a lot closer.

Glenn: We're pretty much done here.

Charlie: Yeah, well, we know how to get to where we want to be much quicker now.

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: But, the first time we [whistles] saw the cut of some of the stuff that we'd shot and it was an editor who we hadn't worked with. Well, he was a great editor-

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: -but like, um, you know, he was doing very sort of commercial TV-

Glenn: Mm-hmm, yeah-

Charlie: -approach to it.

Glenn: -yeah.

Charlie: It was devastating.

Glenn: Fair enough, yeah. But we watched it and we were like, "This is-this-this is--

Rob: Well, we're done--

Glenn: Yeah, we're done.

Rob: Yeah, we're going- we're going back to the restaurant.

Charlie: It was like you'd say a line and be like-- [noises]

Glenn: [laughs] Throw in some ah, oga's on it.

[vocalizing noises]


Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: Well, I just want to talk about the fact that we did, uh, the Rick Astley song before-

Charlie: Oh, yeah

Glenn: -Rickrolling was a thing, um--

Charlie: Did we invent that? No, we- I'm sure--

Glenn: I don't know.

Rob: I think enough people-

Glenn: I'd like to think that--

Rob: -were watching the show for us to have invented it.


Glenn: I don't know, right.

Charlie: You never know, man.

Glenn: I don't know.

Charlie: You-you plant a seed and, uh,--

Glenn: You know, his songs are like, they're fun to sing in his like very specific style of singing. And my sister and I used to sing all of his songs, whenever they would come on the radio, we'd be sitting in the backseat and we'd be singing and-- Yeah, I think of the kind of shit my sister and I used to do when we were kids, and it's exactly the kind of things that my kids do that drive me fucking nuts. And now, I get it. I-- You know, I've told my parents, I'm like, "I get it guys. I'm so sorry." Like, my mom used to make us sit at a different table. Like at dinner, she'd be like, "I can't." But we had a kid's table in our house, 'cause she couldn't stand us. [laughs]

Rob: Yeah.

Glenn: She hated us. We were insufferable and she was right- she was right.

Charlie: Were you fighting all the time? Was that-was that what it was?

Glenn: No-

Charlie: You were constantly battling?

Glenn: -no, we were just-- We wouldn't-- We just, we were loud and doing voices.

Charlie: You were full of joy.

Glenn: We were full of joy. Yeah-

Charlie: Oh, that sounds-

Glenn: -we were making each other laugh.

Charlie: -terrible.

Glenn: We were making each other laugh. Well, it was-it was just, you know, like I don't know, like my-like my kids kind of do that. And I'm just like, "Can you just fucking eat?


Glenn: Can you just fucking eat?

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: I need you to go to bed so I can have at least an hour to myself. Get out of here finish your dinner, get in the bath, go to sleep and leave me alone."

Charlie: And you've said that now they just laugh at you when you say that. Like they just start--

Glenn: Yeah, 'cause they think I'm funny.

Charlie: Yeah, they--

Glenn: 'Cause I am.


Glenn: And I-and I have to explain that I'm not trying to be funny, and they're like, "Daddy, you don't know how-

Charlie: That's so-

Glenn: -to be angry and not funny-

Charlie: -funny daddy.

Glenn: [laughs] I'm like, "Son, I'm not joking. Get out of here."

Charlie: "Shut up, Hollywood."


Charlie: Shut up, Hollywood. Shut the-shut the fuck up Hollywood.

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: Yeah.



Glenn: What is the purpose of this for you, Rob? Why-why are you doing this podcast? What excites you about it?

Rob: The same reason we do the show. It's fun.

Glenn: Um, I-I don't know why we still do the show. So-

Rob: I have fun.

Glenn: -you have to answer that too. Oh, you're having fun.

Rob: I spend at least to 40 to 55% of the day laughing out loud, yeah.

Charlie: I--

Glenn: Well, what else are you going to do?

Charlie: -I have a lot of fun on set, once we get to set.

Glenn: You-- So you have not been having fun, by the way-

Charlie: The wri- the writing is hard.

Glenn: We are in the middle of the-

Charlie: The writing is hard.

Glenn: -writing season 15, right now.

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: We are, what? Week four or five into the writing process and we're-

Charlie: Yeah.

Glenn: -avoiding it by doing this podcast.

Rob: Yeah.

Charlie: Yes.

Rob: The writing-the writing is-the writing is--

Glenn: It's brutal.

Charlie: The writing is the hardest part-

Rob: -It's brutal.

Charlie: -it's the hardest part.

Glenn: Yeah-

Rob: Yeah.

Glenn: -it's brutal. There are definitely moments of fun, um, and Charlie's-

Charlie: Yes.

Glenn: -right, when we're on set, when we're acting together, that's probably the most fun. But this is fun too. I like doing this podcast with you guys. I wouldn't say today's the best episode, but, uh, you know, you're gonna have your--

Charlie: Today's the one where we spoke the most clearly. Like we stopped down for a second to have an actual conversation-

Glenn: Right.

Charlie: -from time to time. Which maybe is interesting to people. I don't know- I don't know.

Glenn: I don't know either. I just don't feel like we were that funny today.

Charlie: No.

Glenn: You know what I mean? Like, I-I feel this pressure to be funny 'cause we're, you know, the show's funny.

Rob: I was, um, I was laughing.

Glenn: Were you laughing?

Rob: Meg-Meg was laughing, but you don't, again-

Glenn: Well, right.

Rob: -she doesn't have a microphone so you can't tell. -

Glenn: Mm.

Rob: We should have like a, um, like a phone number, like old school phone number.

Charlie: Like a hotline?

Rob: Yeah, where people can call and they can basically tell us how much they love or hate an episode.

Glenn: Oh, yeah.

Rob: And then maybe we could-- [crosstalk].

Charlie: I would love a live call. That sounds-

Glenn: How--

Charlie: -very fun to me. I-

Rob: One live caller.

Charlie: -I'm the kind of person that when the office phone rings, and I answer it and it's like spam, I engage the the person-- [crosstalk]

Glenn: Oh, me too. Yeah--

Charlie: -for 45 minutes

Glenn: As long as possible.

Charlie: Where I'm like, "Okay yeah, I'd love to give you my um, credit card information. Let-- Can I know a little bit more about your company? And then I say, "Hey it's not a problem that I work for the FBI, right? Like that's not an issue for you guys?"


Charlie: And then they usually hang up right around then.

Glenn: Oh we have fun.

Charlie: We have fun.

Glenn: Charlie likes to have fun in any situation

Charlie: In most situations--

Glenn: He'll take a situation that would irritate the average person and go, "How can I make this fun?"

Charlie: Yeah.

Rob: Yeah.

Charlie: Two wars?

Glen and Charlie: Two wars?


Rob: That, well think about that. That was an episode that seems like it was 100 years ago. And we were talking about wasn't-- We're- we were talking about podcasts. We were talking about podcasts You guys were doing a podcast.

Charlie: We were doing a podcast.

Glenn: Yeah it was basically you guys won that radio contest, Mac's Big Break, and we thought like, "These fucking knuckleheads. They don't do anything. They just talk and listen to themselves. And they do like stupid sound effects." And we were like, "We have more interesting conversations than those guys." And so we were like, "Let's do a podcast."


Charlie: Mm-hmm.

Rob: That's kind of what this is. My face is all over this thing. Yeah, I can't stop. [crosstalk]--

Charlie: Yeah. Well, it's not- it's not so-

Rob: I can't stop.

Charlie: -bad that you do it. What's funny is that it startles you.

Rob: Yeah [laughs] I get, I get ner-- Yeah it, it--

Glenn: It's probably--

Rob: Every once in a while I get too close and it bumps me.

Glenn: The pop card, well also, like your probably your breath is like hitting the pop guard and then splashing you back in the face. You're like a fu-- You're like a cat getting sprayed by a spray bottle. You know? Because you got up on the counter.

Charlie: There's-there's just some, there's just some spatial awareness issues happening with you, it's just like-

Glenn: Yeah, you did say-- No, no, you said your-

Charlie: -you're not sure-

Glenn: -I thought you said your eyes were doing okay.

Rob: I am, my eyes are alright.

Glenn: Doesn't seem like it.

Rob: It's my nose.

Charlie: It's your nose and lips that just don't know where to go.

Glenn: Yeah, so your eyes are okay but you don't know where your nose is.

Rob: I think we're getting somewhere.

Charlie: Yeah, yeah.

Glenn: Okay, why do you think that is?

Charlie: I don't know.

Glenn: You don't know where your nose is anymore?

Charlie: Actually, jokes aside, what do you think it is? Like why-why [laughs] is your face actually continuing to-


Glenn: Why do you feel compelled to get that close?

Charlie: -to touch the microphone?

Glenn: Yeah, what is that?

Rob: Because I can't hear myself in my- [crosstalk]

Charlie: Oh, that's what it is so it's a hearing thing. You did mention that you're-- [crosstalk]

Rob: Yeah, I do have a terrible--

Charlie: Get that man-

Rob: Wow. Oh, that was so loud.

Charlie: Oh, there we go. There he's blasted out.

Rob: That was so loud. [laughs]

Charlie: Shit, Megan is turning up the volume on Rob's earphones.

Rob: Wow, oh my God. That makes such a difference. Because if I speak like this, that hurts my ears.

Glenn: Yeah.

Charlie: Yeah.

Rob: So now, I'm going to stay back here.

Charlie: Okay.

Glenn: Rob has hearing damage [crosstalk]-

Charlie: It's been solved.

Glenn: Rob was telling us the other day he's got hearing damage. What do you- where do you suppose that's from? Is that--

Rob: I do have hearing damage.

Charlie: Oh, you were saying that. Man, I really delete files. I'd completely forgotten you said that.

Glenn: Yeah, I remember that. Because we were talking about how our eyes were going, Charlie.

Charlie: Yeah, yeah [crosstalk]-

Rob: My eyes are great. My eyes are great, my ears are shit.

Glenn: Uh-huh.

Rob: Can't hear anything. The good news about hearing loss is that if you can't hear it, it didn't happen. So you don't know what you don't hear but with sight, you guys can see that you can't see what you're supposed to see.

Glenn: Mm-hmm

Rob: You know what I'm saying?

Glenn: Yeah.


Glenn: Um--

Charlie: [singing] Oh, the eagle's born in thunder uh, he flies through the night. Oh, [gibberish]

[laughter] ah ah ah.-

Rob: That's a different- that's a different. Save it, save it, save it.


Charlie: Oh, you see him fly.

Glenn: The birds all roar.



[00:33:08] [END OF AUDIO]


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