On the pod, the guys revisit The Gang Cracks the Liberty Bell from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia Season 4, Episode 11.
Glenn Howerton: Like, it's weird to be on a show--
Rob McElhenney: Why would you guys start before--
Megan Ganz: We're not.
Charlie Day: We're not-- We haven't started.
Glenn: Well, you know what I mean, it has and it hasn't.
Glenn: In that sense, it has.
Charlie: I mean, like, is there a ton of good content? Mm sure.
Glenn: Absolutely. A lot of good stuff came out before you got here.
Glenn: Uh, well--
Charlie: Uh, guys here we are.
Rob: Well, I got a hot take. I'm coming in hot.
Charlie: Oh, come on in.
Rob: I'm coming in hot because I watched the episode this morning and I do remember a tremendous amount of, um, of audience pushback on this particular episode-
Rob: -uh, if I recall correctly, and my hot take is that they're all wrong.
Charlie: Oh, uh, I'm, uh, with you. Not only, uh, do I think, uh, it's a great episode, I think it's one of the best episodes we've ever done.
Glenn: Now, that's a hot take.
Rob: That's a-that's a hotter take that I've got.
Rob: But I-I think it's up there with a-
Glenn: That's piping hot.
Rob: -with a very good episode.
Charlie: I think it's within the top 5 to 10 best episodes we've done.
Rob: Oh, wow. I put it in the top-
Megan: -it's one of my favorite cold opens ever. I think the cold open is--
Charlie: The cold open is amazing.
Charlie: The cold open is so funny cause you stretch out that moment where you- where you guys are doing something absurd for so long. [laughs] Like--
Charlie: We're talking about the picture of George Washington. Do you remember who we were saying it looked like? That the network made us change and we switched it to Meryll Streep?
Glenn: [laughs] No.
Glenn: No. Wait, wait, wait. Lemme think about that.
Rob: Wait. Let's try. Let's hear it.
Charlie: Well, I remember something you don't remember.
Rob: Wait, let's try- let's try and figure this out.
Glenn: So, so-- and they made us change it.
Rob: Barbara Bush.
Glenn: Oh, no, no. It has to be-- it had to be somebody on FX, right?
Charlie: That's right.
Glenn: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Glenn: Glenn Close?
Rob: Glenn Close.
Charlie: Yes. Because it--
Rob: Because of Damages.
Glenn: Yeah, Damages is huge.
Charlie: Because it does look a little like Glenn Close. It doesn't look anything like Meryll Streep.
Glenn: Not really. No.
Charlie: And it's not as funny. And that's my only-- there's-there's only two--
Charlie: There's only two things that I feel like keep it from being a perfect episode. That joke. Where I'm like, "Godamn it, it should have been Glenn Close. It's so much better [unintelligible 00:01:46].
Charlie: Uh, and, uh, and my performance. Um, and well, mine and Danny's storyline, but we'll get into that cause there was a thing with that.
Glenn: I do rem-- Yeah, I do remember that too. And I wanna- I wanna get your feelings on that now because-
Glenn: -in retrospect, because I remember- I remember it being a thing that we were talking about on the day trying to dial that in.
Charlie: Yeah. We'll work to that.
Charlie: But like in terms of the episode in general, it's such a great premise. These guys, they have this bar and they want to get more customers so they say, "Hey, if we were just on a historical walking tour, people would walk by a bar, they'd come in, they have some drinks. [laughs]
Glenn: That's right.
Charlie: And then they go to the Historical Society and tell this ridiculous tale and then-- I don't know.
Glenn: Well, I do-- I just said-
Charlie: It's fucking great.
Glenn: I love that-that basically what we're saying to her is we had a direct hand in-- our bar had a direct hand in why the Liberty Bell was cracked, right? And then-and then the whole--
Charlie: And then she goes, "Well, tell me."
Rob: I love-I love that.
Megan: She's so excited.
Rob: I love the way-- of course, she would be.
Charlie: She's so good.
Rob: She's so good.
Glenn: She's terrific.
Charlie: She's so good.
Rob: She's a woman that works at the Historical Society and we're saying we're coming in with a-a fresh story on how this happens.
Glenn: No one know's who cracked the Liberty Bell and we know.
Rob: And she was so excited to hear it.
Glenn: But yeah, then we don't tell-we don't tell a story about how the Liberty Bell get cra-- got cracked until the very, very end.
Glenn: And it's just these two dudes. And I think they were-- weren't they like stunt guys or whatever, and they were carrying that thing. And then one guy's like, "Ah, shit bro. We broke-- We just broke the Liberty Bell."
Charlie: To me, it's firing on all cylinders where it's-
Glenn: I don't know- I don't know if I feel as strongly, uh, about it as you guys do.
Glenn: I liked it. I enjoyed it very much. Uh, and I laughed a lot but--
Charlie: Just from a purely entertaining standpoint. The fact that we got the production quality of the show to kind of pull that off.
Glenn: Yeah. Another Shakman episode.
Rob: It was very expensive. It was very expensive.
Charlie: Matt Shakman killed it.
Glenn: It was expensive. Yeah.
Charlie: Yeah, this was a big swing for us.
Glenn: You know, the Paddy set looked outstanding.
Megan: Yeah. Really good.
Charlie: But the two of you guys and David and uh, and Caitlin are firing on all cylinders. I'll say that Danny and my storyline isn't as strong as you guys's storyline is.
Glenn: That is true.
Charlie: There's not like much happening there. So I think maybe that just kicks it outta maybe one of the best we've done, but God damn it, I-I laugh beginning to end.
Megan: I think that whole gun sequence is so funny though when-
Rob: The gun sequence is funny by the way.
Megan: When-when she's gonna shoot the pumpkin off of his head and then you guys are checking if the guns work by pointing them at each other and pulling the trigger.
Glenn: By firing the gun.
Megan: Can you pose to take one? It's like, oh, so funny.
Rob: Charlie asking how she could have possibly talked you into this Frank, and he's like, maybe it was her necromancy and she was like, "He asked me-
Glenn: Damn your necromancy woman.
Rob: -to shoot the guns. And I said, yes, that's it. That's why we're here."
Megan: He came in and said, "Shoot the pumpkin off her head.".
Charlie: I like that they're slightly simpler people. They're even simpler than our characters, which are already simple. I mean, your-your reaction to cricket saying, "but you don't really think she's a witch?" Like it's totally, it's like no. Yeah, no, no. Pretty sure she Is.
Rob: Sure. Pretty-pretty sure.
Glenn: Pretty sure.
Megan: Well, that sequence-
Glenn: Aye aye.
Megan: -too where-where he says, "I'm not very good with women," and you guys are like, wait-
Glenn: Oh yeah, yeah.
Charlie: Wha-what do you mean?
Megan: Good at women?
Glenn Wait a minute with-- good with women.
Charlie: Explain this twist.
Glenn: Good at them?
Megan: Good at them. They don't have any rights. Just catch them.
Glenn: Just-- you just grab one and take her.
Rob: When like-
Megan: It's so funny.
Charlie: You're kinda going between like a bullshit story that these guys are telling, but also like who they would've been in this time, which is fun to see.
Charlie: And the fact that they're like, well the first thing we're gonna do is try to get on the British side is so-
Glenn: Yes. So incredible.
Charlie: Fitting to the characters. Works great man.
Megan: Also fitting to Dee that she wants independence unless the dependence comes with land and gowns.
Rob: [chuckles] Yes.
Megan: And jewelry.
Megan: In which case, she's totally fine being married to some guy, but, uh, yeah.
Rob: Although she's gotta work up to kissing him.
Charlie: Do you guys have any recollection though of like, pitching this episode or like how we got to, wanting to do-- I mean for where we were at with the show-
Charlie: it is a big swing-
Charlie: which is probably why it was jarring to audiences, which is like they have to, you know, suspend their disbelief beyond what they're already doing but like, I don't even remember, how do we ge-- Like now it would seem normal to be like, yeah, we might do one like that, but at the time we must been thinking--
Rob: I can tell you where-where I do understand the-the audience's ire. I-I-I would say that what, as the maker of stuff, I like to stretch and do different things.
Rob: That makes it fun.
Rob: But as a- as a- as a fan or as a viewer of a show, I actually sometimes do get frustrated when they get outside of the norm of what the episode, like what the episodes are.
Rob: Johnny Cakes.
Glenn: Yeah. Yes. Exactly.
Charlie: Wait, what's Johnny Cakes?
Rob: That's a great example. Yeah, in-in The Sopranos or the-or the episode where Tony moves to-- he has a dream sequence and moves to Los Angeles and becomes like an average guy.
Rob: You're watching it and you're like, "Ah, I get why this is exciting to them 'cause it's different and they get to stretch and tell a story in a different way." The fly episode, very famously in Breaking Bad.
Charlie: You wanna see the Fonzie and the leather coat punch the jukebox-
Charlie: -and make it work. You don't wanna see him jump over the sharks.
Charlie: But I will say though about this episode, we're not doing that. It's, they're just telling a tale. Right, so that's why for me it's still.
Glenn: That's why it works -
Glenn: -because it's our characters making something up and visualizing ourselves as the character themselves.
Charlie: They're just telling you story and then the audience gets to go along with the story.
Rob: I'm just playing devil's advocate. They're dead wrong. The audience is wrong-
Glenn: No, I think--
Rob: -to be angry and creeps and listeners-
Charlie: And by the way-
Rob: -who disagree, you can fuck off. It's our show, right?
Charlie: No, learn-learn something today. Learn that you're wrong.
Charlie: Um, no, but like, uh, but-
Rob: That's why the people tune into the podcast, they wanna learn-
Glenn: To get berated.
Megan: Let's give- let's give credit to-
Rob: -they get berated.
Charlie: -the many millions of people who I'm sure love that episode too I don't wanna say that.
Glenn: My dad loves that-- loves the episode. It's one of his favorite episodes.
Rob: [inaudible 00:07:19].
Glenn: Uh, I gotta ask him why that is. I don't know. I think he- I think he actually appreciated that we took like a weird historical angle on-on things. I don't know.
Megan: Yeah. I don't think that it's hated I think it's just polarizing. I think people either really like it or they don't like it and they skip that one and like the rotation.
Glenn: Let me throw this in there that if-if you're one of those creeps or-or-or listeners that skips that episode when you do a rewatch, give it another shot. You know, you might-- your opinion on it may have changed or maybe not, I don't know. You may still come out the other side hating it, but, uh, give it another shot.
Charlie: I don't remember the breaking of it at all. I don't remember how it got pitched in the room or--
Charlie: I don't even remember feeling like, "Oh, this is a big swing." Or--
Glenn: I think it started with the-the concept of trying to get Paddy's on a historical tour to drum up business.
Glenn: Like, I think that's how it started. And then-and then I think it went to like, well what if we actually tell the story? Like, what if we actually do an episode that takes place in the time that our characters are referring to.
Glenn: Uh, I-I do believe that that is how it evolved. And then I think we got very excited cause we were like, Oh, that would be really fun and it's totally different.
Charlie: So I remember, so here's my thing with my performance in that, which I'm going-- there's different takes of me playing it kind of much more like Charlie Kelly-
Charlie: And then me playing it like this-this kind of like, you know, monstrously dumb.
Charlie: Like frighteningly dumb guy.
Charlie: Which was my initial instinct, which was to be like, okay, what would the 1776 version of this guy who's already an idiot be like, how-how kind of base could I make the guy?
Glenn: Yeah. Yeah.
Megan: If you're illiterate in 2005.
Megan: What would you be in 1776?
Glenn: Right, right, right.
Charlie: Yeah, what would I be in 1776? But you guys were just doing your characters in those costumes, right?
Glenn: Well sort of- sort of. We were hopping in and out like we were--
Charlie: Right, right you do the aye and stuff but like you're not--
Glenn: We would be like sort of like heightened versions of, you know, and then- and then something would happen and I'd be like, "Ah yeah good one nice one, witch."
Charlie: Yeah, right, right, right.
Megan: Yeah good one witch that's another-- a great moment.
Charlie: And I had done a full day I think or like full couple scenes of that and then you guys kind of pulled me aside and be like, "Hey I feel like I'm not seeing any Charlie--" I remember you saying, I think you were being nice and trying to like soften the blow but being like you're doing such a good job, I don't see any of your character in there.
Rob: Mm-hmm. It was like you're playing a different character.
Glenn: You're playing a different chara-
Rob: Actually to Shakman's credit he was the one that was picking up on it first. And he's such a great director and he like came to us and was like, "I think I'm--" Look, I never-- he never wants to get in the way of any of our performances, right?
Rob: So I remember him saying "I don't wanna step on Charlie's performance 'cause it's great, but I'm not seeing a ton of Charlie Kelly in there. What do you guys think?" And I remember us discussing it and then bringing it to you.
Charlie: Yeah and he and you guys were dead right. I think it would've backed-- my side of the story would work better if I just played it straight like Charlie Kelly. Um, I could be wrong but like I think I didn't need anything beyond just me and Frank being me and Frank in different costumes with furs and pumpkins. Right?
Glenn: Yeah I think-I think I recall it feeling- it feeling a little like a hat on a hat, right? Like I was like it's already really funny what you guys are doing-
Glenn: -and saying and it's all-- you know. And then yeah, I think that's how- I think that's how I felt about it 'cause I remember also agreeing that I actually liked what you were doing.
Glenn: I just felt like it would be funnier if you didn't do it.
Charlie: Right, yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, yeah.
Glenn: You know what I'm saying like?
Glenn: I know and like it was one of those things too where it's hard to know, right? We don't know the rules and there are no rules right? Like Cricket is a completely different guy, but it works because he's this British guy and it's this like fantasy of Cricket.
Megan: Also the way you guys treat him is similar-
Charlie: The way we treat him is similar.
Megan: -to like Dee not being interested in him and calling him crazy ugly.
Glenn: It might have been me too being like well there's not-- the storyline is like we're trying to buy a b-- a pumpkin and then there's a funny thing with the guns but like there's not much to that storyline so try to make more out of it but--
Rob: You can really see it in the very fir-- the first time you speak. So it was probably an early take in that first scene.
Charlie Kelly: "Oh, ho, ho, ho, ho. Hello there sir. Now my good gentleman what says you of my fine furs here? Merrily, I be able to guide you towards some interest in some purchase?
Pumpkin Vendor: I can't understand what you're saying.
Frank: You wanna buy a fur?
Charlie Kelly: Yeah." You can see you going for it there, but I find myself watching it and remembering that entire sequence happening and then going oh man I wouldn't mind seeing a whole episode like that.
Glenn: Yeah, of that. Yeah, no it's the same.
Charlie: Of that guy?
Rob: Yeah, yeah.
Charlie: So but what--
Glenn: Yeah I'd love to do a side-by-side like do yeah like if there was a cut of like full that you know versus like a cut of that.
Charlie: What we wound up doing was that I would do one take as that and then several takes with that dialed way down.
Glenn: So that we had the option.
Charlie: -but then what wound up happening I think 'cause we had one day of shooting where it was fully that is that it's kind of in and out of that. Like sometimes it's that, sometimes it's not that.
Glenn: I think it-it doesn't-
Megan: It doesn't bother me.
Glenn: -totally not. It doesn't-it-it-it doesn't feel completely disjointed. I see it because I know-
Glenn: -what we did but-
Charlie: Yeah. No, and it's fine cause we're all doing some characters at times and then dropping it-
Charlie: -but, um, that-- rewatching it being like yeah, no, I feel like you guys were totally right. Like it should have been like just do it as Charlie Kelly.
Glenn: Well, so do you guys remember-so, uh, when-- I-I-I do remember when we-when we were, uh, writing the episode or breaking the episode talking about what we wanted those guns to look like-
Glenn: -and-and we very specifically-- you and I had the same image. I-I-you-
Rob: No, all of us did.
Glenn: -might have-- yeah.
Rob: When you say blunderbuss-
Charlie: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Glenn: Yeah, blunderbuss.
Rob: -we know-everybody knows what a blunderbuss is-
Glenn: What else [unintelligible 00:12:51] think on-
Rob: -based on-based on-yes. It's an elephant-
Charlie: A cartoon.
Glenn: It's a cartoon guy- it's cartoon guy.
Rob: -based on-ba-based on Elmer Fudd.
Glenn: Uh, it's an Elmer Fudd. Right
Charlie: I mean, yeah, yeah.
Rob: That's what we wanted.
Charlie: Is that the one with the barrel at the end goes like out like that?
Rob: So that's what we had in our minds when we write that in and we- and we call it a blunderbuss. That's what-
Charlie: Yeah, we'd written that.
Rob: -and we got-- and on the day we get these guns there, they look like actual rifles and we're like, "Well, this isn't- this ain't funny."
Glenn: It ain't funny. We wanted the Elmer Fudd gun.
Rob: They're like, "No, no, but this is what they actually used in 1776."
Glenn: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rob: We're like, "We don't fucking care."
Glenn: We don't give a shit.
Rob: Bring us what we wrote in the script and they're like, "Dickheads, this is what you wrote in the script." and we're like, "Well, don't-- bring us what we were thinking."
Glenn: There is a lot of that.
Rob: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rob: There is a lot of that. Our poor--
Charlie: Know what we're thinking.
Glenn: Our poor-
Rob: Know what we're thinking.
Glenn: -props people--
Rob: Don't bring us what we asked for.
Charlie: Right, 'cause didn't we- didn't we de-determine that there were no actual guns-
Charlie: -made with quite the dimensions that Elmer Fudd--
Megan: That Elmer Fudd--
Glenn: So we had to-- yeah, we had to manufacture it.
Charlie: Yeah, we wanted those Fudd dimensions but I mean, we could have built one. We could ha-have one made.
Rob: Well, the-there was also another incident, uh, with this episode where-where we were saying want Cricket's head to explode in a very specific way.
Glenn: Well, do you remember what the reference was?
Rob: I-I do but-
Rob: -at the time-
Glenn: Do you remember?
Rob: -we were like we-we know exactly the way we want it to be. We want-we want it to explode into a billion pieces-
Rob: -and they were like, "Well, that just can't be done." And we were like, "Well, no, we-we've seen it in a movie."
Glenn: No, David Cronenberg did it in the 1970s so-
Rob: Yes, so we in Scanners and-
Rob: -we were like, "Make it like--
Glenn: We want a Scanners explosion.
Rob: -look like this." Yeah, it's--
Glenn: Yeah, I mean I-- so no, but for the audience that-- anybody who's, you know, a David Cronenberg fan certainly but if you have seen the movie Scanners, there was a very famous scene where--
Rob: We should put that in the leads.
Megan: I'll cut it in right here.
Glenn: Yeah, pop it.
Glenn: -I believe it's Michael Ironside's head.
Rob: Oh, is it?
Glenn: Or maybe Ironside is doing it. I can't remember. Ironsides is involved in some way. Love that guy. Very broad shoulders.
Megan: I worked with him on a Community episode.
Rob: Him and Brian Dennehy. What's that?
Megan: He was in one of my Community episodes.
Glenn: He's terrific.
Megan: He told great stories about some movie he was on with like Arnold Schwarzenegger
Rob: That tracks.
Glenn: Total Recall.
Rob: Yeah, Total Recall.
Megan: Total Recall.
Rob: Yes, he's there.
Megan: He was talking about being in a room-
Charlie: Oh yeah, totally. He's great in Total Recall.
Megan: -and they just the cigarette smoke like the-they would cont- in order to get the room smoke back then to like shoot with atmosphere, not only did they use to smoke but they used to be buckets of cigarettes just like smoking into the room to like get it--
Rob: Yeah, that-that--
Glenn: Okay, well, that's ridiculous cause smoke machines definitely definitely existed.
Rob: But that's like, apropos to what we're talking about here. So, we were- so we were saying, great, make it look like Scanners. And the visual-- the special effects guys were like, "We can't do that." And we were like, "What are you talking about? It's 30 years later." And they're like, "Well, no, the way that they got that-- cause we-
Rob: -wound up-- there's a couple of takes that we actually did, where the head, I think we had three heads, and the two takes did not work because the pyrotechnic just didn't work. It just kind of fell apart.
Glenn: We were just like how got-- just we got--
Rob: And our special effects guy was like, "Look, the way that they did that," because he researched it "was the guy came in with a shotgun and right off camera, just blew the head with a shotgun."
Glenn: Blasted the head with a shotgun.
Rob: And we were like, "Let's do that." And he was like, "We can't do that, anymore."
Rob: It's not- it's not the '190s. So, at the same time, when they were burning cigarettes on set, they were taking shotguns.
Charlie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Shooting people with shotguns, yeah.
Rob: Just hot guns-
Megan: Live rounds.
Rob: -and live rounds, on set, blowing heads up.
Glenn: Probably had a cigarette in his mouth while he was doing it.
Glenn: Right, yeah. Yeah, sure. So how did we-- I don't remember-- And we were by the way, that was the first time
Charlie: [unintelligible 00:15:58]
Rob: Well, we-we like--
Glenn: -we shot with the Phantom. That was the first time we shot with the Phantom camera
Rob: So he upped the load. The first one was like 30%-
Glenn: So more loads?
Rob: -then it was like 60%. And then he put in like-- and we had-- every day to leave and put on ear protection and shit. And he essentially just blew-- he blew the thing up with, like the force of--
Glenn: And it was--
Charlie: Is that-- that's funny in my memory, he shot it with a shotgun?
Glenn: Now, yeah, right.
Glenn: In Scanners, I-I-I believe I-I-I- feel like the face like, it explodes, but the face actually like flaps-
Glenn: -in like a really interesting way, we never quite--
Rob: Which we have- which we have in here.
Megan: I have a--
Glenn: What do you mean?
Rob: The horns bone.
Cricket: And I shall make sure that all of you are safe from the mighty sword of Brit--
Mac: Oh Shit.
Dee: God damn it, Frank. You just ruined my whole life.
Charlie Kelly: Wait, wait, wait. Check his pulse.
Dee: He doesn't have a head.
Charlie: Yeah, a good chunk of it flies off the side but--.
Rob: Well, you-- Then you see an eye. You get a great eyeball, just an eyeball goes like--
Charlie: Part of the shame of it, though, is like having to use the different camera just to get the slow shot. So then it- it-
Charlie: -jumps so much that-
Rob: I feel like--
Charlie: -it's a little less surprising. It's still fun, 'cause you're like--
Rob: Well, that's 'cause part of how silly it looks.
Charlie: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rob: You can definitely see that it's a- it's a--
Glenn: Yeah, there's was a moment.
Megan: Oh, yeah. And also, that- then Charlie being like, "Well, check his pulse."
Megan: There's literally spurt of blood comes out of his neck and [unintelligible 00:17:16].
Rob: Check his pulse.
Glenn: Check his pulse. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, check his pulse.
Charlie: Check his pulse. That was in the script.
Glenn: Yeah, yeah., yeah.
Charlie: That was scripted.
Glenn: There's blood.
Megan: Speaking of effects, how did you guys get Rob's Wooden teeth to make that noise?
Charlie: Yeah the-the--
Glenn: Your performance-
Charlie: Your wooden teeth acting-
Glenn: -is amazing.
Charlie: -yeah, your acting in general in this episode-
Glenn: Your acting is amazing.
Megan: One of the best episodes, I think, like you've had many, many good ones, but I think it's one of your best. The two of you guys together, all those scenes.
Mac: Those sons of Liberty, sons of bitches, Dennis. Those guys are gonna get us into so much trouble.
Dennis: Let's do this.
Mac: No, no, no, no. You hang back.
Dennis: What? Me? Why?
Mac: Because we need to get as much intel from these guys as we possibly can for that Colonel Cricket.
Mac: This fob thing's gonna totally blow our cover.
Dennis: What's going on with your mouth?
Mac: Oh, I got some wooden teeth put in.
Dennis: Did you?
Mac: Yeah. Well, all the patriots are doing it, including Washington, which is why it makes sense, okay, if we're going undercover. Not this fob bullshit.
Dennis: No, the fob thing's good, man. I got a plan with it. Yeah, I got an angle.
Mac: Fine. Okay. Listen, you let me take the lead, okay?
Dennis: Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mac: You son of a bitch.
Megan: But yeah, the wooden teeth is such a funny--
Glenn: How did you- how did you do the whistle?
Rob: There-there-- That's not actually teeth. There's no teeth in there. It's my teeth just painted.
Charlie: Painted brown.
Rob: So I was just doing it with like a- like a whistle.
Glenn: I mean-- But I mean, that sound --
Megan: But are you making that whistle noise?
Megan: Can you just do that?
Charlie: We add some whistles in post too.
Rob: Yes. And then- and then we would add-- Yeah, so that's exactly right. So I-- So we'd have to say that--
Glenn: Can you do it now?
Rob: Yeah. So, what-what were some of the-- So-so-so like s-s-s-some of the lines.
Rob: And then we would-- And then what I did was in post, I just went like [whistles].
Megan: Oh, and they just-
Rob: And then we would just drop it in.
Megan: -drop it in.
Glenn: Oh, I don't-- See, I don't remember that.
Megan: It's so funny.
Charlie: It's so good.
Glenn: It's so good.
Charlie: You're like, "Tell me, what are we talking about here?"
Rob: Yeah, you-you listen, you son of a bitch.
Glenn: I mean that's fucking--
Glenn: I can't do that.
Glenn: I can't do that.
Charlie: The combination of that guy and then your fob in that first scene where you go to the revolutionaries and then you're like, "What are we talking about?" And you're like, "Surrender."
Rob: I think the whistle's making the whole-- Yeah, but the- but the whistle's the whole thing. [crosstalk]
Glenn: That's-- It's the whole thing making it work.
Charlie: That's, uh, my old trainer, Matt Vincey playing the, uh- uh, one of the patriots I used to work out with.
Glenn: Oh, right.
Charlie: Um, play-- He-he seems like a patriot. He seems like a real patriot.
Glenn: Yeah, in real life, is he-- you think he's a big patriot and so he just comes off like a patriot 'cause he is one?
Charlie: Yeah, he seems like he could kick butt for America, you know?
Charlie: Square jaw.
Rob: Just, uh--
Charlie: But you guys seem like traders and fobs.
Glenn: Yeah, that's about that sounds about right.
Megan: Did it take longer to shoot this episode?
Rob: Probably is-- I-I-- There's no way we had more--
Charlie: I think it took longer 'cause we had to redress the whole bar-
Charlie: -which was a big deal.
Rob: But once it was dressed, once the sets were all built, it wasn't- it wasn't super complicated.
Megan: Where'd you shoot all that stuff that was like out in the marketplace and stuff?
Charlie: Um, Lacey Street Studios. And it was, uh, not a nice studio.
Charlie: Um, kind of rough around the edges. And we just brought in the dirt and the chickens. But they had-
Charlie: -a lot of like brick and stuff.
Glenn: But I mean, all that stuff had to be built. Had-had to be, you know?
Glenn: And enough of it to where we could do an actual walk and talk.
Rob: Didn't we shoot-- We-- Didn't we shoot some of it in, um, Pasadena?
Glenn: That sounds right, yeah.
Charlie: And then you guys going down the alleyway where Dave G-
Glenn: It's at that corner.
Charlie: -kind of corner--
Charlie: -you-- corners you guys.
Rob: Yeah. Yes.
Charlie: That's a alleyway in Pasadena.
Rob: Pasadena. And then- and then- and then we shot in front of Paddy's.
Charlie: And then we shot in front of Paddy's and we just put dirt down and that was on a green screen.
Rob: A green screen.
Glenn: I was watching the movie Judgment Night last night. And there is absolutely a shot-- There's a shot of--
Charlie: Of Paddy's?
Glenn: Like when-when the- when the bar-- when the-the RV breaks down in that movie, it's right next to-- it's-- They drive right by Paddy's.
Charlie: You know what's another good classic like downtown movie is Repo Man.
Charlie: And it's all like the streets where we shoot Sunny.
Glenn: Emilio Estevez only shot nights, right?
Charlie: Yeah, he-he's like, "Is it- is it "Is it night? Is it downtown LA I'm in?
Glenn: I'm in.
Charlie: Um, are there any small ducks involved? Are they mighty? Um.
Glenn: Uh, Dave G.
Charlie: Our buddy Dave G.
Glenn: Who had already been in an episode because he was in, um, The Gang Sells Out. He plays somebody who works at the Oldies Rock Cafe.
Rob: He's played a number of characters.
Glenn: Well, so he played the Oldies Rock Cafe guy with the--
Glenn: He had like a little thing and he is given Dee the resume, right? Is that right?
Charlie: Yeah, uh-huh.
Glenn: Yeah, and then we brought him back for the Liberty Bell. He plays the-the cockney guy who accosts us.
Meghan: He's credited as "Thug".
Rob: And then he comes back again.
Glenn: So Dave's played three characters on the show.
Glenn: Dave G.
Rob: That's got the record.
Charlie: Oh. And then also, uh, the courtyard where you guys go to meet David for the first time and you bring him the ale.
Glenn: That was in Altadena?
Charlie: Yeah, that was in La Cañada.
Charlie: That was in La Cañada. It's like an old like, kind of Mansiony thing.
Rob: Wait, do you know, are you sure that that was in La Cañada?
Rob: Was it-- was it like a gated community?
Glenn: Is La Cañada near Altadena?
Charlie: Yeah, they're close. Yeah.
Glenn: Okay. 'Cause I thought it was Altadena.
Charlie: Yeah, it's up that way.
Rob: See I had a memory, and maybe this was actually a different episode. This might have been the gang-- this might have been "The Gang Gets Trapped in the Closet". But maybe if you guys remember this, um, a very famous person lived.
Charlie: That was trapped in the closet.
Rob: That was trapped in the closet. Okay.
Charlie: And that's down off Wilshire boulevard.
Rob: Okay. Yeah, that's over-- Okay. So we'll save- we'll save that.
Glenn: Jesus, for a guy who doesn't remember much, he remembers a lot.
Rob: He remembers everything.
Meghan: Charlie's on top of it.
Charlie: I'm clear. I'm also clear today.
Rob: You know why? 'Cause it's near the golf course. That house is near the golf course so he remembers.
Charlie: Which one? The La Cañada one?
Rob: The one on Wilshire-- no, the one on Wilshire.
Glenn: Did you take a limitless--
Rob: And by the way, so was the La Cañada.
Glenn: Did you take a limitless pill this morning?
Meghan: [laughs] Are you limitless?
Glenn: Are you limitless?
Charlie: I have no limits this morning. What else do you wanna remember?
Charlie: Glenn, you look like you've been working out.
Glenn: Oh, man. Thanks, dude. Yeah, I mean, look, I'm always working out, you know, so I'm not sure if you just now noticing is like a compliment or not?
Rob: Um, I've been-- I've been working out a lot too.
Glenn: Yeah. You're the sort of person that needs to do that to feel good about themselves.
Charlie: What are you guys wearing to work at these days? What are you, what are you looking good in?
Rob: Mainly I'm looking for versatility and comfortability. Right? Something that will fit any workout I might be doing that day. Maybe running, I might be swimming training, or yoga. And that's why I love the core shorts from Vuori.
Charlie: Oh my God, the Vuori shorts.
Glenn: Yeah-yeah. Guys, I don't go anywhere near the gym without my Vuoris. I mean, I love them. They look and they- and they feel great as you move in them. Plus, you know what I love? Their products are made from sustainable materials and offsets 100% of its carbon and plastic footprint so you can feel great about what you're wearing.
Rob: Vuori is an investment in your happiness.
Rob: For our listeners, they are offering 20% off your first purchase.
Glenn: Guys, get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at vuori.com/sunny. pod. That's V-U-O-R-I.com/sUnny pod
Charlie: You get 20% off your first purchase but-- enjoy free shipping on any US orders over $75 and free returns if it doesn't fit, goes back free. Go to vuori.com/sunnypod and discover the versatility of that Vuori clothing, man.
Megan: We're brought to you this week by Shopify for when you're ready to launch your thing into the spotlight and here to attest are three guys, who we all know because they launched their thing into the spotlight.
Rob: That's right.
Charlie: We launched our things into the spotlight. Wait, man, let's, I don't know.
Rob: Well, we did our television show and everybody is familiar with that origin story by now, but I have to say, if we do it again, we might launch ourselves onto a different platform.
Megan: Ooh. A different platform like Shopify.
Rob: Absolutely. It's been a good run on cable but I feel like culture is shifting towards a platform ethos like Shopify. You create a store based on your own vibe, discover new customers that dig your vibe and grow a following that keeps coming back week in and week out.
Glenn: Yeah. Plus Shopify has all the sales channels sorted to keep your business growing from an in-person POS system to an all-in-one e-commerce platform. Even across social media platforms like TikTok, Facebook, or Instagram.
Charlie: Launching our thing into the spotlight has always been a dream from a very young age, but I will say it has its share of pitfalls in learning curves, it would've been a lot easier with Shopify's 24/7 support and free libraries of educational content.
Rob: Shopify makes it simple to sell to anyone anywhere and every minute new sellers around the world make their first sale on Shopify.
Charlie: Let's just jump to it. You know what? Sign up for a free trial today at shopify.com/sunny. All lowercase.
Megan: Yep. Go to shopify.com/sunny to start selling online today.
Glenn: I'm going to say it one more time. shopify.com/sunny.
Charlie: Right now we're writing the show again.
Glenn: We just started.
Rob: We just started writing the show again.
Glenn: We just started. When's this, I don't know when this podcast is going to air.
Megan: This is coming out next Monday.
Charlie: Yeah, so will have been----
Rob: So we're on day two of writing.
Megan: And Rob Rosell and Scott Marder are back this year in the writer's room, which is really exciting.
Charlie: Yeah. Exciting.
Glenn: Very exciting, very exciting. very exciting.
Rob: I will say, when I look up at that list of episodes, I think we've discussed this and you guys feel the same way that the closer they are to the present, the, uh, the-the least I remember them. I remember the-- I could name you every episode from seasons one through three or four and then-then it starts to get, and then the closer it gets to, I-I like season 14. I have no idea.
Megan: But is that cause we just re-watched them for the podcast, you think?
Rob: I don't think so. I think it's because we spent so much more time making them cause we were figuring out what the show was, I mean--
Glenn: Yeah, I think it was much more all- consuming experience in the early years because you're figuring it out.
Glenn: And everything matters. Every decision is-
Charlie: We've also lived with the-
Charlie: -older ones longer, right?
Charlie: So like whatever Gang Cracks the Liberty Bell has been discussed and quoted and talked about, you know many times.
Rob: For a longer period of time.
Charlie: There's been memes, there's been-- they've been sort of like put into society in a way that like last year, you know, the one with the monkey you know it's just newer, it's just not been in your life as-as long so like, I remember those.
Glenn: Yeah, but I-I-I th-- I think, I mean personally I think it has more to do with sort of where you're at in life where you're, you know, it's like--
Charlie: Yeah, like you got a lot more going on now too like uh-
Charlie: -children, multiple shows-
Charlie: -versus what-
Charlie: -we were all--
Glenn: Pouring everything.
Charlie: Our whole life was-
Charlie: -the show.
Glenn: We poured-- we were pouring absolutely everything into it. And it- and it- and it took longer because, yeah, we were figuring it out so-so I think that's why cause every decision felt monumental.
Megan: This period that we're in right now in the writer's room is my favorite part, the blue skying at the beginning. It's always the most fun cause you're just like throwing a bunch of weird ideas on the wall.
Rob: Anything-anything can happen.
Charlie: Anything goes.
Glenn: Explain the audience what-what that is.
Megan: Yeah, so blue-skying. So the first like, what? We usually only do like a week of this on Sunny but on most shows the first couple of weeks you just throw out episode ideas. So it could be like little tiny ideas like full-full fully formed episodes. I used to do that when I prepared more for my first day but now you guys can't fire me so I come in with like half ideas-
Megan: -so like, I don't know this. But then--
Rob: But what- what you find is no matter what you're eventually responsible for your lack of preparation in the beginning-
Megan: Sure because then you have to [unintelligible 00:28:38]
Rob: -because then you have-- you gotta make up for it over the course of the next 2 months.
Megan: But it's fun cause then like-- So Rob was sitting in with index cards and any idea that you guys liked he would just write it down and we'd put it up on the board. So then there's all these cards up on the board that might have ideas like, well-well the judgment night thing that you guys got onto-
Megan: -that you're really excited for next year or--
Rob: Well that's. That interesting to talk about, yeah. So why- so why do we get into Judgment Night? We got into Judgment Night because of relevance. We were talking about being relevant and our music choices being relevant.
Rob: And we talked about how the Judgment Night soundtrack was a seminal experience-
Rob: -for people over the age of 44.
Glenn: Right, right. Yeah.
Rob: That was like a huge album.
Glenn: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was one of those albums. It was like that and like The Crow soundtrack.
Rob: Dangerous Minds.
Glenn: Dangerous Minds. There were like a couple of soundtracks back in the day that-that really cut through and-and-and had like a huge cultural impact. I don't know--
Rob: That got us talking about Cypress Hill.
Glenn: Right. Yeah.
Rob: And singing Cypress Hill songs. And then half the room was like, who-whos, Cypress Hill?
Megan: [unintelligible 00:29:39]
Rob: What is this?
Glenn: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Charlie: Not half our room. Half our rooms are all old.
Glenn: There were a couple of things
Glenn: -where Nina was turning to me, she was like, Ni-- Nina was like-
Glenn: [unintelligible 00:29:49]
Charlie: Can those help us out?
Megan: I think maybe that's why sometimes when we g-- go through these episodes and I ask you where the ideas came from it's so hard to remember specifically because it is so amorphous in a writer's room, like where I-- like that Judgment Night thing might turn into an episode that you could never believe started with a conversation about the Judgment Night soundtrack and then became-
Glenn: Something else entirely.
Charlie: We could lose the whole judgment night thing-
Charlie: -totally but it inspired something. I mean also like, yeah, it was interesting, we're talking about that in like in Judgment Night they've rented like a Winnebago and they're trying to get to a boxing match and they pull over cuz traffic's bad and then they're like in a bad neighborhood and then they like see a murder and then they're like, you know, it's like a very kind of genre-based like fight your way out of-
Charlie: -out of hell kind of thing. But like-- I don't know, there's-there's such a problem with homelessness and there was something interesting about the idea of like literally driving around in like a second home.
Charlie: You know?
Charlie: And then trying to cut through like a homeless encampment.
Glenn: In your home?
Charlie: Yeah, in your [laughs] in your mobile second home. -
Charlie: So like-
Rob: What if instead of committing the murder, uh, instead of seeing the murder, we think we've committed the murder and we have to get-
Charlie: Oh yeah. Like run over a homeless person-
Charlie: -with your other home.
Rob: And then we have to get outta here.
Charlie: Well like-
Glenn: Well that-that's how-- that-that is what happens in-in Judgment Night, um, sort of. I mean to say he's not a homeless guy, but-
Charlie: He's like running for help and they--
Glenn: They hit a hat was just shot.
Rob: But that was an accident.
Glenn: Yeah. No It's an-- total accident and then they-they rescued the guy thinking that it's because they hit him and then they discovered that he's been shot. Andnd then they find like money on him and they're like, "Oh shit. What is-- what are we about to get wrapped up in?" And then Denis Leary shows up.
Rob: And doesn't he-he-he finish them off.
Charlie: He should not be--
Rob: Doesn't he finish him off, shoot him in the head?
Glenn: Yeah, he sure does.
Charlie: I mean, he really, you know, got his career to an interesting place-
Glenn: He sure did.
Charlie" -from stand-up, right? Where he got to do like dramatic stuff and--
Rob: Yeah. Well, he'sokay. He a good actor. I-I-I wonder, yeah, I'd-I'd love to actually, I-I don't know if he started as an a-- 'cause some people like you-you-you think that they were stand-ups, but they actually were actors first and then they just happened to do stand-up like, you know, I think for-for people who don't know that like Robin Williams went to Julliard, they're like, oh, he was a stand-up comedian and then he became an actor and it was like, no, he was an actor first, then he started doing stand-up 'cause he was so funny.
I-I do remember i--, uh-uh, I-I think it was uh, maybe the last season of Rescue Me and we saw Denis Leary, I don't remember if you-- I think we were all there and we ran into Denis Leary in a hallway, I think it was at a TCA event-
Rob: Oh, yeah.
Glenn: -or something.
Rob: Yeah, that's right. That's right.
Glenn: And he was-and he was like, that's very effusive.
Rob: In the bowels of the TCA.
Glenn: Yeah-yeah, and-and-and-and he was-he was super nice and effusive and-
Rob: -and-and it was really cool 'cause I-- one of my first-- God, was it my first? No, I think it was my second on-camera gig, it might be offensive in today's-
Rob: But it wasn't offensive at the time.
Megan: Was this The Job the show--
Rob: It was definitely offensive at the time but it's--
Glenn: It probably would.
Megan: Can we talk about this, The Job?
Charlie: Yeah. So I don't think we've talked about it on the podcast. So yeah, it was- it was a show that Denis, Leary did. It was a half-hour comedy, but it was about cops and it was called The Job and I believe it was on ABC.
Glenn: And uh, I remember auditioning to [chuckles] going into this audition to play, um, a gay, uh, wedding planner. And I remember, I didn't know, I was like, I-I-I didn't know like, sort of tonally what they were going for with this. So-so I remember going into the audition and-and again, this is- this is a part that was like, I don't even know if saying this would be considered offensive, but I was just trying to get a performance note from the casting director and from the director and the people that were there. I was like, "How gay are we talking?" Like--
Like, you know what I mean? Can you gimme a range? You know, like--
Rob: How cartoonish. How much of a stereotype are we looking for?
Glenn: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rob: Do we wanna make the situation better or worse-
Rob: -just socially?
Glenn: Yes, yes.
Glenn: So am I making fun of this entire group of uh--
Glenn: No. No. It was literally, I was like- I was like, just-just dr--, you know, one--
Rob: You were basing him on a real person.
Glenn: Well, okay, that's-- So yes, that is actually true. But that-- okay. That became after they said like, I was like, "On a scale, you know, on a scale of 1 to 10, you know, how-how effeminate you want this man to be?" Uh, and they were like an 11.
Megan: Oh, what?
Glenn: And I was like-
Rob: An 11.
Glenn: -"Are you sure?" And they were like, "Yeah."
Rob: This is all a bunch of straight people in a room being like, "Let's go for it."
Glenn: Yeah, go for it. Let's just-- I think they just wanted to see what an 11 was.
Rob: Sure. [laughs]
Glenn: You know what I mean? Since I a-- They were like, "Well, since you asked," you know.
Charlie: A shot, let's see what you got.
Glenn: What's your 11? Uh, so I gave him an 11 and it was- and it was to be fair, totally and 100% based on, uh-uh-uh, a guy that-that, uh, was in the dance division at Julliard at the same time as me.
Rob: Yep. as taught by Benjamin Hark Harvey.
Glenn: [laughs] Yeah. Yes. Uh, rest in peace.
Glenn: Um, and so I was basically like, I'm just gonna do that. Um, cause that's an 11. So then when they were like, they were all, they loved it.
Megan: They like, "Wow."
Glenn: I-I-- Yeah, I-I think they-- I think, well I got-- They hired me so they-they must have liked it. Um, and then when I went-- When I actually shot it, I went prepared to like fully be that guy. And when I started shooting it, actually, they were like- they were like-- they had me dial it back. So what's in that show is actually like
Rob: Dialed back.
Glenn: -a seven.
Charlie: That's a seven.
Charlie: Rob. What are you playing? Your get character at--
Charlie: Yeah. A three.
Rob: Oh. Uh, as a stereotype.
Rob: You know, a zero. I'm playing.
Charlie: You're playing at zero.
Glenn: Well, so that's the question, right? I mean, you know, because, uh, you can- you can definitely see it as a stereotype, you know. Uh, but I-I was playing essentially a real human being that I had met and encountered-
Glenn: -and talked to and was, you know, friendly with. So this was a person that I knew this was a real human being that I basing this on. So stereotype, yeah. You could see it that way for sure.
Rob: You're saying that oftentimes stereotypes are 100%. true?
Glenn: That's true, isn't it?
Megan: Not for whole groups of people but sometimes for individual people.
Glenn: For individual people.
Rob: Yes, yes.
Rob: Individual people [unintelligible 00:36:05].
Glenn: Yeah I'm not saying it's right to portray them that way, I'm not even saying that my per-performance was-was completely dialed in, you know, uh, in that- in that sense. But you know for clarification I was playing a real human being.
Megan: But when you're on that show were you a big fan of Denis Leary before you got there? Was he one of your like comedy-- Did you grow up like watching comedians and like coming in that way or was it just the acting thing and then you found comedy?
Glenn: It was both, I mean I-I, at the time I was-- yeah, no, I-I didn't consider myself a comedy person at all. I mean I-I knew I liked doing comedy, I felt like you know amongst my group of friends maybe I was- I was funny and, but I had a lot of super funny friends. And as-as I think you've pointed out with like your buddies and Philly you feel like you're the least funny person of all your friends and yet you've made a career out of it. Uh, I often feel that way where I'm like, "I have so many friends that are so much funnier than me and yet somehow I've made a career in comedy."
Charlie: I didn't grow up watching-- Did you grow- did you grow up watching a lot of stand-up?
Megan: Yeah lots of stand-up.
Charlie: How did you access it?
Glenn: It was that Comedy Central?
Charlie: I didn't have cable.
Megan: Oh, okay.
Charlie: I wasn't a fucking rich kid.
Megan: Comedy Central and also, um, I used to watch SNL, and then after SNL was, um, uh, Showtime At The Apollo.
Glenn: Oh, Showtime-- yeah, yeah, yeah.
Charlie: Oh, I would watch some Showtime At The Apollo.
Megan: And I used to watch that a lot which was great and then, um--
Charlie: I guess they even start with the stand-up. Yeah. Right?
Megan: They started-- they did some stand-up and some different acts and stuff. Um, so
Charlie: Uh, there was, um, Star Search.
Megan: Star Search, but my--
Glenn: That's where I saw Sinbad, that's where Sinbad came outta Star Search.
Megan: Um, my dad was a big fan of stand-up so he used to play comedy records like Bill Cosby and like George Carlin and stuff.
Glenn: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah I remember all those Richard-- the old Richard Pryor and Bill Cosby.
Megan: And then I used to read their books, like I-I went through this phase where I would like go to the library and like check out any book that was written by like a stand-up comedian. I would like read so I read like Tim Allen's book and like--
Rob: I read Denis Leary's book, the one about nyquil.
Megan: Yeah I probably read that one too Chris Rock's book.
Glenn: The one about nyquil?
Rob: The-the-- Nyquil wasn't the title of the book. He had like a whole- a whole act that was based on nyquil and how much he loved nyquil. [laughter]
Glenn: No I did-I did though, I-I did tre--, I-I admired him tremendously because I-I had seen his stand-up. I wasn't like a huge stand-up fan, but I-I knew enough and I did, I remember him standing out to me in a major way. The first time I ever saw him on MTV I was like, "Holy shit this guy is something else. Like he's really funny."
Charlie: When somebody is on the top of their game and you watch them firing on all cylinders in front of a crowd it's pretty compelling.
Megan: It's amazing, yeah.
Glenn: But then he also had a stand-up special that really put him on the map I think it was called No Cure for Cancer.
Megan: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Glenn: A little stand-up act, yeah.
Rob: Where he is smoking the whole time.
Glenn: He's smoking the whole time and it's hilarious, it's fucking amazing and so I knew him from that. And then, um, I don't think at the time I really knew his acting stuff that much, but I just admired him as a-as a performer so yeah it was exciting, it was cool.
Charlie: Think he still smokes?
Rob: I don't think he does, no.
Glenn: I-I don't know. Denis, you still smoking, pal?
Rob: It's time.
Glenn: It's time.
Megan: But the stop smoking thing, like, it reminds me of I-I recently saw an article about a guy, I can't remember where it was, but who hadn't taken a bath in like 65 years.
Glenn: Yeah. That'd be the dirtiest man in the world.
Charlie: Oh yeah [unintelligible 00:39:12] he died.
Megan: [unintelligible 00:39:12] and he died. like [laughs] [unintelligible 00:39:15]
Glenn: He took a bath and died.
Megan: Yeah. And you do think about that. You're like, okay, let's say a person like ate bacon like just tons of bacon and like smoking a ton cigarettes-
Glenn: Yeah, bacon boy.
Megan: -and like all this stuff for their entire life. And then if they make a change, like do-- does your body become so acclimated to that one way of living.
Glenn: Well, I think so. I think so.
Charlie: I think if you don't wean it, you know what I mean?
Megan: Yeah, yeah.
Charlie: Maybe he shouldn't have taken a full-on bath. Maybe just like walk through the rain first, you know?
Megan: Or like just wash your hands.
Charlie: Yeah. Wash your hands.
Glenn: Wash your hands. Right, right, right.
Glenn2: Cut that. Cut that. Cut that. Cut that. Cut that.
Glenn: Hey guys, um, The Always Sunny Podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp.
Rob: Do you ever wish life came with an owner's manual, like your vehicle?
Glenn: Do you struggle to understand why you're feeling feelings?
Rob: We should all be feeling feelings every day, but sometimes they get overwhelming, and unfortunately there is no owner's manual for them. But BetterHelp Online therapy is basically the next best thing.
Glenn: But the thing is, it's true because therapists, you know, therapists are trained to help you figure out the cause of challenging emotions and to learn productive coping skills, you know, which makes therapy the closest thing to an owner's manual of you.
Rob: Therapy is helpful in all regards, and BetterHelp has connected millions with licensed therapists. It's convenient, accessible, anywhere, and entirely online.
Charlie: As the world's largest therapy service, BetterHelp has matched 3 million people with professionally licensed and vetted therapists available 100% online, plus it's affordable.
Glenn: All you gotta do, just fill out a brief questionnaire to match with a therapist. If things aren't clicking, you can easily switch to a new therapist anytime. It could not be simpler.
Rob: No waiting rooms, no traffic, no endless searching for the right therapist.
Charlie: Learn more and save 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com/sunny
Rob: That's right, that's betterH-E-L-P.com/sunny.
Megan: This is going back to something we were talking about earlier, but it's interesting to me to ask you guys, so none of you have ever been in a writer's room as a writer for somebody else's show, right?
Megan: So you've never done a blue-skying like just pitching ideas to somebody else's thing or have you done that?
Glenn: You know, we did-- I did pop into the writer's room a few times, uh, when Rosell, Marder and Rosell, when we produced Unsupervised.
Glenn: That's the one time I've ever spent some time in a writer's room where I was like breaking stories and-and-and talking about story ideas on somebody else's show even though I was an EP on the show. But, uh, other than that, no.
Megan: It's-it's interesting that like none of you have ever--
Rob: It's hard. I did that with them too, and I'd be like, "I think we should go there." And they're like, "No, we should go somewhere else." I'm like, [grunts]
Rob: But it seems like I know like we should go there. They were like, Well, no. We're going this direction." I'm like, "Mm, But that."
Glenn: Well, it's like if you started out. as the lead singer-songwriter in a band, right?
Glenn: And then somebody said, "Hey, come in and sing backup vocals for me."
Glenn: You know, and you went in and you're like, "Well, we'll-we'll sing it like this." And they're like, "Well, no, you're doing backup. So you just-- And you're like [sighs].
Rob: I don't know if it's analogous to that, because you're- you are contributing. It would be like, if someone's, like-- It would be like, uh, Simon and Garfunkel and, and Simon's like, "Well, this is the way we've been doing it, and Art, you've been helping out with the songwriting, but we're gonna do it like this." And then one day Garfunkel's like, "No, we're gonna do it like this."
Megan: We're gonna do it this way.
Rob: And then Paul Simon's like, "Good bye."
Glenn: Gar fuck off.
Glenn: Gar-fuck-yourself. [laughter]
Rob: That's better.
Megan: It's just interesting to me because like, you guys are great showrunners to work for and, um, and--
Glenn: Everybody catch that?
Megan: Yeah. And, uh, they're not paying me to say this. Um, but, uh, but-but you would think that-that would come because you've worked in rooms and you know how to treat people fairly because you've been-- But it's just interesting that like, you guys have never been on that side of it and still treat people with like, respect and dignity when they're in the room, which is interesting.
Glenn: Well, that maybe why we treat people with respect and dignity.
Megan: Maybe. I don't know.
Glenn: You know, I think it-it-it could be that, you know, if you come outta years of being demoralized by a showrunner, you know, and then you finally get your shot, you're like, "It's my time."
Rob: I find that more often than not that people, if they haven't gone through something, if they've been mistreated, they tend to mistreat.
Megan: Yeah. Maybe that's why.
Rob: Because they've either that's the way that they've learned, or because they truly feel like, now this is--
Glenn: I think it's often it's just who you are, right? Is like you--
Charlie: I've never been mistreated, like, um, on a show, or-or like, you know, like on a movie or like in a writer's room, I don't think I would take it very well.
Rob: I got-- I've been mistreated, but not like abused in any like, real way, not in the way that a lot of people have been mistreated in this business.
Glenn: I got- I got, have I told this story? Working with that director on Fargo, where with the props?
Glenn: I told this story?
Glenn: No. Okay. So I-I-I-I've been extremely lucky too. I-I haven't really run into too many problems on-on sets with like jerks or-or somebody being a jerk to me. And I very much, very much don't-- wouldn't take it well, and I knew that I wouldn't take it well, and luckily I'd never encountered it, so I never had to deal with it.
But I was, uh, working on an episode of Fargo and there was a director who just, you know, I-I-I don't know, he, whatever. Anyway, we were setting up a scene. Well, I was gonna, anyway -- [crosstalk]
Megan: He is back there.
Rob: Yeah. He's there.
Rob: He's there right now. If you were to take his blood pressure, it's be through the roof.
Glenn: You're not wrong.
Glenn: You're not wrong. Um,--
Charlie: Now what this fucker say? What [unintelligible 00:44:43] this guy?
Glenn: Well, so it was a scene, uh, with me and, and Billy Bob and I had to, uh, do a thing where, okay, so the scene was, I had to use one of those, like, you know, those voice modulators that you put like on the phone to modulate your voice [deep voice] and make it sound like this or whatever. So my character is supposed to take this voice modulator, put it on the phone, dial-dial the phone, and call someone and use the thing, you know. So we're in the rehearsal and you know, we're like, let me rehearse this with the props, just cause you know, I wanna make sure that it all like, so it's not goofy, you know. So I have the voice modulator in one hand and then I've gotta grab the receiver. It was one of those phones where the numbers were on the thing.
So this thing was kind of big and then I've got the receiver in this hand and I was like, you know, and I, and-and-and this is a rehearsal like in front of the crew. Like, I don't think the whole crew was there, but they were people watching the rehearsal, you know. And I was like, Oh, you know what, this is a little awkward cause I'm not sure how I'm suppo-- if I've already got this in my hand, uh, you know, how-how am I supposed to dial the phone, you know, like with this thing in my hand? And he was like, "You've never dialed a phone before."
Glenn: And I was like--
Rob: Oh my.
Glenn: And I changed immediately because I knew what that meant. You know that's-that's not a- that's not a real question.
Charlie: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Glenn: You know, so I think that's what I said to him. I was like, is that a real question?
Megan: Oh boy.
Glenn: And he was like- he was like, "Just-- You just dial the phone as you would any other phone." And I was like, "You've misunderstood my question. I have something in both hands. My fingers are occupied. So what I'm saying that you've misunderstood is how am I supposed to dial a phone with fingers that I don't have? Do you understand my question now?"
Charlie: Yeah. Nice.
Glenn: And this guy was like- and this guy was like, who the fuck does this guest star--? Like that was-- I could tell that was what he was thinking. He was like, "Who the fuck does this guest star think he is?" And I was like, "Motherfucker I'll walk off this set. I don't give a shit."
Charlie: "I don't give a fuck. I don't give a fuck"
Megan: See we responded that differently 'cause like, my response would be like, "Okay, I'll figure it out." Like I just want to pl-- like make you pleased and happy.
Glenn: No, I was- I was like, "No, you explain it. You explain it cause-cause you seem to understand how a man can, a man with no fingers can use his fingers to dial a phone. So you explain it to me and the whole fucking crew right now, you prick."
Rob: But Megan, to your point, I get- I get when you say like, you want to- you wanna, you-you want to make a- you wanna make the environment as peaceful as possible.
Rob: But if someone comes at you with that level of disdain or aggression, would you respond the same way?
Megan: Well, I mean, there's two, like for me, I'm trying to get better at it, but there's usually two options. One is appease and like get the situation back to peace, however quickly we can do that, or burst into tears and then leave.
Charlie: But you--
Megan: So those are the two options.
Charlie: But you would- you would and have removed yourself from the situation, thought on it, and then eventually acted and called bad-
Charlie: -behavior out. And which is to say like you-you-you wouldn't-
Rob: You wouldn't take.
Charlie: -completely take-- you might take it in moment, but that doesn't mean you're totally gonna take it [inaudible 00:47:56]
Glenn: You'll have different triggers too, right? Like for some reason I, my biggest trigger, uh, when it comes to that kind of thing is if somebody tries like, and I-I'm-I'm better about it now than I used to be when I was younger, I had real fucking temper about this, but like if anybody tried to humiliate me, certainly even if it- even if it wasn't in front of other people, but certainly if it was like in front of people, that would-- nothing would set me off more than like, you know, somebody trying to humiliate me.
Megan: See, that--
Glenn: 'Cause that's what it felt like. It felt like he was trying to humiliate--
Megan: That, I had that happen.
Glenn: He wanted to humiliate me and I was like [laughs] ha-ha-ha. Mm-mm.
Megan: I have had that happen. And at the time, like I didn't do anything about it but, you know, what has helped me now is like just having enough wins. Like having the confidence of looking back and like-- in particular, I'm remembering a showrunner that I-I was on set with one of the episodes that I had written and the showrunner wasn't on set. And when we first screened the episode, the editors cut in the writer's room.
This showrunner didn't like it and said to me in front of the whole writer's, uh, room, "Is this what you think TV is? No, no, seriously, is this what you think TV is supposed to be like? Tell me right now that this is what you think that TV is supposed to be. Like, this is what you think it's supposed to be like," and just kept hammering me on that.
And I was like, "I don't even know what you don't like about it," like-- but then I-- but I was really nervous cause I was like, "Oh, I fucked up the episode and-and it's already been shot so we can't do anything about it." I hated-- I was-- I immediately was like, "You should humiliate me because I've ruined it," and so felt like that until the episode aired and then it was like one of the most popular episodes of the show ever.
Glenn: Oh, amazing.
Rob: So then now I have the confidence of looking back on moments like that and going like, "Well consider this source. Like, do you think this person is the end all be all of knowing everything about what TV is?" If so, then you can feel shame for what? But so that-that's helped. But like at the beginning, yeah. I mean I also, even as a guest star, you were like famous enough or-or-or successful enough that you felt like I can walk out of here and still have a career, but I was like, you know, a young writer on a staff. I was like, I can't be like, "Fuck you."
Glenn: 100%, no.
Megan: And like walk outta this room.
Glenn: Yeah. I think I--
Megan: So. Yeah.
Glenn: To be fair, I think if--
Charlie: Yeah. There's a time and place for it.
Glenn: Yeah. I think if I wasn't in the posi-- if I-if I needed, if I desperately needed that job, I might have been able to-- I might have just swallowed it a little bit in that moment, but, uh, but knowing that, I didn't.
Charlie: But I bet it ended right after that exchange, right? Like it--
Glenn: It shut him down.
Rob: Well, that's what happens with bullies.
Charlie: Because that's what ha--
Glenn: He actually--
Charlie: Yeah with bullies, right, because it's like--
Glenn: He became very nice after that.
Rob: Of course.
Charlie: They don't bully a guy like you, especially if they know, "Oh, this guy's not gonna take it."
Charlie: They bully someone like Megan who's in her first year.
Charlie: It's like, uh, you know, famous directors who you've heard have like terrible tempers and you see like clips of them like freaking out on somebody on set and you're like, "Well, they're not freaking out on the guy that can kick the living shit out of them."
Glenn: [laughs] Right.
Charlie: It's bullets bully writ large.
Megan: But to bring it-bring it around back to like this episode and taking big swings and stuff, I think that the the real shame of doing stuff like that, of trying to humiliate somebody or like being like a shitty boss, is that you, like, you kind of suffocate that person's ability to just like try things.
Charlie: You gotta kick around some bad ideas to get to a good one.
Megan: Also, my half-idea might merge with somebody else's half-idea and then become like, but if I never say it out loud it never--
Glenn: I feel like almost every episode of our show--
Megan: Yeah, is like that..
Glenn: Has been a result of like some weird conversation about like, you know, some fucking dumb moment.
Charlie: There is a balance though, right? Like if you feel all your pitches are going over like a lead balloon-
Charlie: -then you sh-- probably should pick up on that and be like, "All right. Let me let think through these a little bit more before I pitch them," but--
Glenn: Yeah, like that.
Charlie: Well, I'm trying to certainly pitch Sunny ideas to you guys. Not like any random idea that I, you know, I try to tailor it to the people that I'm pitching to. And-
Megan: -I feel like I know you guys a little bit now, so-- Was a little bit successful, uh, yesterday in the writer's room, I feel like I got some things on note cards.
Charlie: No, you really didn't.
Megan: Okay. I'll try again.
Charlie: And is that-- Well a lot of them I'm thinking like, is that what you think that we go through.
Charlie: Is this really what you think TV go through?
Rob: We should pull that out at some point. today.
Charlie: Speaking of writing the show-
Rob: Speaking of the show--
Charlie: -we better get going.
Rob: We have to go.
Megan: We got to go write the show.
Charlie: We got to go write the show.
Rob: Let's go write the show.