On the pod, Glenn, Charlie and Meg take a break from shooting It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia Season 16 to talk about acting and reflect on the creative process.
Glenn Howerton: How we doing? Are we uh–
Charlie Day: Are we rolling, Megan?
Megan Ganz: We are, we are rolling, yes. We should be.
Glenn: Rolling, uh–
Charlie: Ah.
Glenn: I, I, I, we’ve been shootin’ all day.
Charlie: We’ve been shooting the show. It’s been a joy. I’ve been in my um, you know, um. No spoiler here, but I’ve been in my american flag bandana all day. It’s a lot of fun to just–
Glenn: Our as we’ve started referring to it–I think you came up with this. Started referring to it as “his Americas.”
Meg: No, Charlie. Charlie came up with that.
Glenn: Oh it was you?
Charlie: Yeah, “I gotta put my Americas on.”
Meg: No no, yeah. He’s got his “Americas” on. *Laughter*
Charlie: Yeah.
Glenn: Yeah, yeah.
Meg: I just put it in the script ‘cause I thought it was funny to refer to refer to them.
Charlie: Yeah, yeah.
Glenn: “My Americas.”
Meg: Is it the jacket? Like, you have like a jean jacket?
Charlie: Mhm.
Meg: What’s the look?
Charlie: Um, I got some really good sweatshirts this year.
Meg: Oh good.
Charlie: Charlie picked up some new “Americas.”
Glenn: You should take those home man.
Charlie: I, I, I would load up–
Glenn: Might have to walk with those.
Charlie: I would say I get a few like side glances from people that are like, “Oh. You’re one of those guys.” Cause’--
Meg: *Laughter*
Glenn: Well, so we were talking about this today in the van. I don’t appreciate that I feel like patriotism has been co-opted by one–You know, half of the country. And it’s like–
Charlie: Yeah. This whole part. Yeah.
Glenn: It’s unfair. You know?
Charlie: Everyone’s an American. Uh, but, uh–I could already hear the outrage. Even–
Glenn: I’m a patriot.
Meg: *Laughter*
Glenn: I mean, I was telling you this story the other day. When, when uh–my, my son had his friends over uh, to the house. And we were gonna watch the USA Netherlands game. Uh, The World Cup. Uh, the USA Netherlands game. And Miles, my oldest son, his two buddies. I won’t name them. Uh, were like, “Yeah. We’re gonna go for the Netherlands.” And I was like, “Wait what? What do you mean you’re going for the Netherlands?” They were like, “Yeah. Were wanna go for the Netherlands.” I’m like, “Right. But you’re, you’re Americans. I mean you, you live in the United States.” Like, “Yeah. We just wanna go for the Netherlands.” And I found myself getting genuinely pissed off.
Charlie: Well yeah. ‘Cause it’s–
Glenn: Have we talked about this on the podcast?
Meg: No.
Charlie: No, no, no we haven’t. Because it’s a bunch of crap. First of all kid–
Glenn: I ge–ge–ge, it was piss–I was getting pissed off. I don’t know if it was because–
Charlie: “You’re not from the Ne–Tell me one thing about the Netherland–Point to the Netherlands on a map!”
Glenn: Well, see, okay so that was the point I was making. I, yeah exactly, right?
Charlie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. “Here’s a map kid. Find Netherlands.”
Glenn: And by the way, he’d probably point it right out. He woulda’ pointed it right out. They’re so much smarter than we are.
Meg: They’re still in geography class.
Glenn: *Laughter* That’s what I’m saying. Like, they’re in geography right now.
Charlie: Nah. Bullshit.
Glenn: I bet you they would. Anyway, whatever. But, but the –yes. But that was thing that upset me. I’m like, “Do you some...” that’s what I asked them. I said, “Do you have some kind of tie with the Netherlands? Like, is there, are you from there?”
Charlie: Mhm.
Glenn: “Do you have some family there?” Anything, any connection to the Netherlands at all. And I–
Charlie: “Spell Netherlands.”
Glenn: and I can–
Meg: *Laughter*
Glenn: and they were like, “No.” And I just was, fuckin’ pissed man. I was like–
Charlie: “Mr. Howerton, I don’t like rootin’ for a loser. And I think statistically uh, America’s not–” “Get out of my house! Get out!”
Glenn: *Laughter* It was so much jockier than–
Charlie: I’m with ya. Well yeah, right. He’s jockey.
Glenn: It was jockey. It was very jo– It was all very like, “*jock noises*”
Charlie: “I don’t know. We’re probably gonna lose. I don’t wanna root for the loser.”
Glenn: They didn’t say that. But you’re probably right.
Charlie: That’s what’s behind it.
Glenn: Well, listen–
Meg: So I, yeah–
Charlie: That’s what’s behind it.
Glenn: I’m the, I’m a GD patriot. Okay? I am a patriot. And so I took it very personally. And I, I was surprised at how personally I was taking it. But I–But it made me, in some ways it made me feel good. Because it made me feel like “Wow. I really do care a lot more about this country than I even maybe realized.”
Meg: Concerned. Yeah.
Charlie: I had a moment, wearing my “Americas” today. Aside from all the sideways glances I was getting.
*Laughter*
Charlie: From extras who were like, “Is he safe?”
*Laughter*
Charlie: Um, where–
Meg: Well, the bandana around the head is just like that–
Charlie: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s a strong choice.
Glenn: Yeah, yeah.
Charlie: But I had a bit of a Rob Justice, to speak about our absentee friend here. But like, uh, um, I had a moment where I, I was looking at a guy on set and I was like, “This guy does not work here.”
Glenn: Mhm.
Charlie: Now, he looked like a grip. He just looked like a grip. He had a big beard, he was a big guy, he like uh, had on like a kind of a rutty baseball hat. He had a army backpack, he had a couple things hanging off the army backpack. He was looking at his cellphone and he was just kinda like hanging around like one of the tents. But I was like where’s–
Glenn: Something’s off.
Charlie: Two things I notice. I’m like, “where’s this dudes walkie?”
Meg: Oh that’s smart.
Charlie: Right? ‘Cause all the guys on set have a walkie. And, “Why isn’t this motherfucker workin’?” Like everybody around here is workin’.
Meg: Uh-huh.
Charlie: Like, we’re settin’-- like, someones’s bringin’ the pipe over here and the pole over here.
Glenn: And what’s the backpack for?
Charlie: And what’s the backpack–-why, why still, like this late into the day, like sure you bring your backpack. But you drop it off somewhere.
Glenn: Yeah you put it somewhere.
Charlie: And then you’re workin’. And he was just kinda lingerin’ around and lingerin’ around–
Glenn: Uh-huh.
Charlie: And I was just like, I was watching him. I was like, he keeps looking at his phone. And then I, I, I talked to Zandra*4:27* who’s a, a, second AD?
Glenn: Yeah.
Charlie: Yeah. Second AD. And uh, and I said, “Hey. Do you recognize this guy here?” And look, there’s a hundreds of people on the set, right?
Glenn: Sure.
Charlie: So it could be, the guy could be day playing. He could be working for the day.
Glenn: Sure.
Meg: Sure.
Charlie: She’s like, “No. I don’t.” And she’s like, “Where’s his walkie?” And I’m like, “Where’s the man’s walkie?”
Meg: *Laughter*
Charlie: Uh, now he never actually looks at us like noticing this. But, he starts to kinda drift his way off the set. And then, she asks like one of the teamsters. And then, he likes walks off. And he–
Glenn: Did anybody check his backpack?
Charlie: No. Like, well he took his backpack probably with him. But–
Glenn: No. That’s what I’m saying. Somebody should be–
Charlie: Oh. Whether it belonged to someone else?
*TIME STAMP 5:03*
Glenn: No, no, no. Or if he like took shit, and put it in the backpack.
Charlie: He definitely drifted onto set. Was lookin’ to steal something.
Glenn: Now, yeah, yeah, the look.
Charlie: But like, you also don’t want to look like, stop some guy who’s in the electric department and be like, “Hey man, do you work here?” But like–
Meg: Yeah.
Charlie: There’s also like, you get a weird spidy sense–
Glenn: Mhm.
Charlie: where you’re like, “Oh man. Like, I got some vibes off this guy.” I don’t know what he was doing but–
Glenn: Something about your “Americas” also like, had you, had you fired up.
Charlie: Something about my “Americas” man.
Meg: Did you go America all over his ass?
Glenn: Yeah. Did you think about going America all over him?
Charlie: I–I–if I had to, I would’ve.
Meg: Right.
Charlie: But I didn’t have to. He sensed the America in me.
*Laughter*
Glenn: Yeah. He didn’t wanna go to war with you.
Charlie: And he thought, “You know what? I’m going war with this guy.”
Meg: “I’m not gonna try.”
Glenn: “This guy spends a lot on defense.”
Charlie: “I’m can’t try on this guy. I can’t try on this guy. He’s too free.”
Glenn: Yeah. “He’s too free.”
*INTRO MUSIC 5:50*
Meg: Other than security risks, did you guys have any fun on set? I’m like sad that I’m–
Charlie: Yeah.
Meg: that I haven’t really–
Charlie: Yes.
Meg: I stopped by set the other day for like, 2 seconds.
Glenn: Well you’re be–you’re directing an episode. Or two episodes?
Meg: I’m gonna direct 2 episodes. Yup, comin’ up.
Charlie: Yeah.
Glenn: Which ones do you–
Charlie: We’re gonna see a lot of each other really soon. But right now, you’re really uh–pickin’ up the slack for us–
Glenn: Yeah. Big time.
Charlie: on the last two episodes which still need writing. And you’ve been, uh–with the room. And leading everyone on the charge of how to get them good. And I know they will be good ‘cause you’re very good at your job.
Meg: Oh, well thank you. I appreciate that.
Charlie: And if they’re not, I’m gonna scream at you.
Meg: *Laughter*
Glenn: Yeah. We’re gonna yell at you.
Charlie: I’m gonna put my “Americas” back on and I am going to shout you down.
Meg: Just have a backpack. Just like, wandering around.
Glenn: Yeah.
Meg: Um, uh, no, it’s been fun the last two days actually. We, we have script that we’re sending to you today. So we wrote the script out in two days. And I really like it.
Glenn: Amazing. That’s the, the, the–oh well I can’t say. Yeah. But I know which one it is.
Meg: Maybe we should. Rob’s not here. He doesn’t care about spoilers. And, uh, it was really great. And I think the–you’re favorite part about the script though, is that it’s 25 pages long. I think you guys are gonna like that.
Glenn: *Laughter* Oh. We do like that. We do like that ‘cause it means we can improv. We can fatten it up on the day.
Charlie: I’ll tell ya what. One thing I think we did really well this season was, just into the pinch of like okay. Time was getting tight, and we’re like okay, lets–we gotta work fast on some of these. What’s a funny location and who are funny characters?
Meg: Mhm.
Charlie: And just like, you know. Brining the mothers back and Uncle Jack. And, you know, we were working with Andrew Friedman today and–
Glenn: Allegedly.
Charlie: Allegedly. Uh, and–he is so funny.
Glenn: He’s fantastic.
Meg: Uh-huh.
Charlie: He’s so funny.
Meg: Yeah.
Charlie: Everything–you look at the guy, everything he says is like, comedy gold. Like–
Glenn: It’s also like, eh, I don’t know. Everybody we work with is just so lovely too.
Meg: Yeah.
Glenn: What is that? Do we just attract lovely people?
Charlie: Because when they’re not they don’t come back.
Glenn: Oh, they don’t come back. We don’t bring ‘em back. That’s true.
Charlie: Although, we really haven’t–that
Glenn: Doesn’t happened though. No, I mean I’m trying–
Charlie: No, it hasn’t happened. We haven’t had a single–I think there’s something about making a comedy too, where, uh, I’ve noticed that even like, if you work with someone who has a reputation, it–everyone has to be on their best behavior because they–they don’t wanna kill the, the joy.
Glenn: But it starts at the top too. It starts at the top. Like, if the vibe on set, ‘cause I think there’s some people who can be–
Charlie: Yes.
Glenn: awful, when they’re in a situation where their, their heckles are up. Or their, their ego’s being threatened in some way.
Charlie: Yeah, yeah.
Glenn: And then they can go on the offensive. But when they feel like they’re in a, like a happy place with happy people. Who are excited to see what you have to bring to the table.
Meg: Mhm.
Glenn: Open to what you have to bring to the table. Open to your ideas. In the movie that I just did, um, I won’t–I worked with an actor who’s a very very well respected, very well known um, actor on this film. And, ya know, when he first showed up I could tell. He was like, he was like, “What kinda bullshit am I gonna be dealing with here?” You know what I mean? But, everybody on that set was great, ya know. Uh, including myself. I tend to be–ya know–
Meg: Yeah.
Glenn: I’m friendly. I’m a nice guy. Ya know?
Charlie: Yeah, you’re great on set.
Glenn: Um, and, uh, and he just, he just–I just watched him. Like, over the course of the first day of shooting with him. Just like, just watched him melt.
Meg: Mhm.
Glenn: And then by the end of it, he was like, “That–this was amazing!” Like, he was like we’re best friends and it was great.
Charlie: Mm.
Glenn: Ya know? But he, but he–he came in and was like–’cause you don’t know what you’re gonna get. Like, “Am I gonna be dealing with a bunch of assholes? Is–” Ya know, “Is the guy I’m gonna be acting with a dick?”
Charlie: Yeah. Yeah. People can have their guards up um, I was just–the most exciting part of the process of this movie I directed–wrote and directed. Fool’s Paradise. Coming out–
Glenn: Coming out soon! Coming soon!
*TIME STAMP 9:21*
Charlie: Coming May 12th. Coming out May 12th.
Meg: I’m very excited.
Charlie: In theaters.
Meg: Oh good.
Charlie: You get to go see a funny movie in theaters.
Glenn: I may or may not be in this movie.
Charlie: You are most definitely in the movie.
Meg: *Laughter*
Charlie: And most definitely fantastic in the movie. Uh, but, uh–John Brian, who did the score for–
Glenn: So awesome.
Charlie: Punch-Drunk Love, and Eternal Sunshine of The Spotless Mind, and who had been doing the score– And we had a full orchestra the other day, and it was, one of the most exciting things I’ve ever been apart of. You know, I was there thinking, “okay–if–I’ll you know, chime in–” I didn’t–I had to do nothing but sit back and watch this man do his magic. But to, hear a full orchestra of musicians uh, scoring a film. And then to know you’re in the same room that they recorded Wizard of Oz. At one point John’s like, “Get up there and hit that gong chime–” ‘Cause they– that’s the same on they use in Wizard of Oz.
Meg: Oh wow.
Charlie: I was like, “You want me to do it?” I also think I got the timing wrong, like three times. He was like, “It’s fine we can edit it.”
*Laughter*
Charlie: But, that was just a magic experience. But, on that movie I got to work with Ray Liotta, who has–
Glenn: Rest in peace.
Meg: Oh, yeah.
Charlie: sadly passed away.
Glenn: So awesome.
Charlie: And I, he would always kinda call me over the many years that I was–I kept tinkering–
Meg: Uh-huh.
Charlie: in post. And rewriting and reshooting things. And he’d be like, ya know, “When’s it comin’ out?” And uh–he was proud of his own performance in the movie. He has a really–
Glenn: He got to be in a comedy.
Charlie: Yes.
Glenn: He doesn’t do–you don’t see the guy do a lot of comedies. Very funny.
Charlie: And I, I saw a transition in him. From like day one or two where he’s like, “Alright what’s the vibe here.” Lot of questions, not sure about everyone. To just, really sinking in and being like–
Glenn: Leaning in and just–
Charlie: “Oh, you’re gonna let me be a little free.”
Meg: Mhm. Have fun.
Charlie: Yeah. And like, I think–
Glenn: I think people really people really respond to that.
Charlie: The greatest lesson I had on, on this movie was that, just get the most talented people I can, and then let them free.
Meg: Mhm.
Charlie: You know? Like, working with John. And then you and Ray. And um, uh, Leslie Jones who came in and did an edit. And Tim Roche, you know–
Glenn: Yeah.
Charlie: who started our edit. But Leslie Jones, who also cut Punch-Drunk Love. And like, The Thin Red Line. And amazing movies. Just, sometimes a big part of the process is just finding people and staying out of their way. But, it’s a long way of talking about my movie, which I’m very excited to talk about. To go back to like, good and bad behavior on set. I find that in comedies, like in Horrible Bosses. Of course, we all know uh, there are some people have gotten in trouble since that movie’s come out.
Meg: Mhm.
Charlie: And might’ve had reputations of, of being difficult on set. But like, when people are with comedy people they, they don’t often bring that energy. But, you worked on a show and seen some really bad behavior from–
Meg: Yeah. There’s been–and it’s always tough. Because–just for what Glenn’s talking about, it’s like, you ruin the mood. And like, comedy can’t really–
Glenn: Yeah.
Meg: exist in like a–or it can but it’s like, you have to work so much harder for it. I think one of the things that you guys do, you guys move so quick. That it doesn’t have time to become like, really boring and still and like, it stays fun and joyous.
Charlie: Yeah.
Meg: And it– I have more of the experience on Sunny of like, “Oh no! It’s over?” When we’re done–
Glenn: Oh good. Yeah. Right.
Charlie: I know.
Meg: with a scene. Like, even directing I’m like, “Oh I don’t get to–okay, fine.”
Charlie: That’s ‘cause we’re always cross shooting the way we are right now. There’s a camera here–
Meg: Yeah.
Charlie: There’s a camera there. So when I’m talking to you, in Sunny or you–
Meg: It’s two at once.
Charlie: it’s all in real time. By the way, Danny today, we were talking about that. ‘Cause Heath said, “Ya know, can you not look at–” Heath uh, Cullens who’s a great director. But, they way we were blocking a scene with Andrew Friedman he said, “Can you actually not look at Andrew. It’s gonna be better if you’re eyeline is–” and you know, we were saying, “Are you sure it’s not passable? because the chemistry’s gonna be better if I’m actually looking at Andrew.” And he’s, “No, no. It’s fine. I’m like, being picky.” And the beauty of the show is that we do that and Danny was like, “Ya know, Milos Foreman was always like–” that he’d quote, “This one is crisscross. Crisscross.”
Meg: Oh.
Charlie: And I get it.
Meg: You mean, meaning your eyeline is supposed to be not–
Charlie: No. Meaning that there’s always two cameras–
Meg: Oh, oh. Yeah.
Glenn: Yeah.
Charlie: But to do that, you sometimes sacrifice the eyeline because you’ll see the other camera.
Meg: Yeah.
Glenn: You do sacrifice the eyeline. Yeah. You can’t get–you can’t get your eyes as close to the lens–
Meg: Tight. Yeah.
Glenn: because you’ve got another camera pointed at, you know. You’ve got a camera right next to, or you know, near you.
Charlie: Yeah. And, like in a perfect world you always have–you have time to do all sorts of different things. You, you–
Meg: Yeah.
Charlie: “You do your Crisscross.” And then you can get within the two actors. But, on our show, yeah–
Glenn: Well you decide–you have to decide on what the priority of, of that particular show is. What the vibe of that particular show is. But I think that’s one of the really fun things about the show. Is that often there are multiple characters on camera at the same time. So you can watch an episode multiple times and never no–and have noticed like, that person’s reactions while the other person was talking. You know?
Meg: Mhm. Yeah.
Charlie: All my favorite movies are that way.
Glenn: Yeah.
Charlie: Are the ones that I can go back to over and over again. And pull something out of–
Glenn: Pull something new out of it.
Charlie: Yeah.
Glenn: Yeah, yeah.
Charlie: Well, uh, speaking of episodes we–we’re not talking about one today.
Meg: *Laughter* Well, I don’t like to talk about recap any of the ones while you guys aren’t all here.
Charlie: Yeah.
Meg: So, we can’t talk about an episode today because Rob is somewhere, we don’t know.
Glenn: Yeah, but that’s okay. That’s okay. I thought, you know–we’re coming at this a little half cocked. Totally unprepared. But–
Charlie: Totally unprepared. We’re making this up on the fly.
Glenn: We are. But–
Charlie: And podcasts aren’t that way usually, right? They’re pretty thoroughly–
Meg: Scripted.
Glenn: Yeah. They’re really well–yeah. Really tight. Tightly scripted, yeah. Um, but I thought it would be really fun uh, since Rob’s not here um, to get into a conversation about acting.
*Laughter*
Charlie: Aw, man. Oh that’s a dig! It’s not even a veiled dig. I’ll tell you what though. Rob, uh, yesterday on set, had me in stitches. And I know, he doesn’t sometimes think of himself as actor first. You know, I–if you put it in order or whatever. But man, like when he taps into something.
Glenn: Well, when you have something specific, he’s playing something very specific right now.
Charlie: Yeah.
Glenn: He’s–he’s doing a very specific gag on the show. That was–that you know, in, in much the same way that he was doing when he gained all that weight. Because, you know–
Charlie: To be clear, just from one episode, it’s like one episode where something is happening to his character. Which it–
Glenn: It alters him physically.
Charlie: It alters him physically. And the way he sounds.
Meg: *Laughter*
Charlie: And uh–I remember having a lot of fun like breaking that. ‘Cause I was like, “This–Rob would be excited. ‘Cause like, it gives him something to do.”
*TIME STAMP 15:25*
Meg: Yeah.
Charlie: I know I’d be excited. I–if it was my storyline in the episode. It’s always fun to be like, “Oh, I’m gonna get to–”
Glenn: Yeah.
Charlie: “just do something different than I’m normally doing.” And he is nailing it.
Meg: I went to the–yeah. I went to the makeup trailer to pitch him the rebreak of the story that we were writing this week. And he was getting the prosthesis on. So that was fun.
Charlie: Yeah. There’s some facial augmentation.
Meg: Like I saw it happening as I was trying to pitch this story to him. And it was really–but you could tell he was like, delighted. He was like, “Look, look, look.” You know, he was like a kid in a candy store.
Glenn: Yeah.
Charlie: Yeah.
Meg: It was good.
Glenn: Yeah. He, he really clicks into something when you give him something uh–especially when you give him something very specific to play. You know? And especially when it’s different, than what he’s used to playing. I mean, I think we’re all the same way.
Charlie: But, we could–we could uh, in depth uh, acting. Or approach to acting. Uh–
Glenn: I just thought it’d be a good opportunity uh–and you know. This might get a little actor nerdy possibly. So–
Charlie: I’m okay with that. I’m okay with that.
Glenn: you know. Um, but, just to kinda you know–almost interview each other.
Charlie: I think the key will be, take your own insecurities out. Right? You know, ‘cause like, you hate to like talk about your process of acting when–
Glenn: Oh no. I love to talk about my process.
Charlie: when Joaquin Phoenix exists in the world, right? Say you’re like, “Why am I…” That’s–that’s not a good way to uh, approach your life or your work. You should–
Glenn: Yeah. You gotta–
Charlie: be serious about your craft.
Meg: I’m interested ‘cause I’m a non actor. So–
Charlie: Well good, ‘cause you’ll have good questions.
Meg: you can explain to me how acting works. Because it’s a mystery.
Glenn: Yeah. Well then at some point I’d love for you to explain to me how writing works.
*Laughter*
Glenn: Uh, because I do it but I still don’t get it. I don’t really have an–
Charlie: Yeah. Does anyone know how writing works? No.
Glenn: No. No one knows. But nobody knows how–how to act either.
Charlie: No one knows how to–yeah, yeah.
Glenn: It’s just, you know. I don’t know.
Meg: Writing I can only do if I’m like, hammering carbs the entire time apparently. ‘Cause that’s what I’ve been doing in the writers room all week. Is like–
Charlie: Yeah, yeah.
Meg: stand–I’m standing up the whole time. And pacing. But also just like, hammering pretzels for some reason.
Glenn: Right. So you’re–
Meg: I think it’s just like, you need a little treat while you’re working. Like, you need a something.
Glenn: Yeah.
Charlie: Brain needs fuel. Your brain needs fuel.
Meg: Uh–I don’t know.
Charlie: You’re draining your brain.
Glenn: Yeah. Yeah, you need that extra, you know. That extra, get up and go.
Charlie: But when you’re acting, carbs are your enemy.
*Laughter*
Meg: Yeah you gotta–
Glenn: Yep. That’s right.
Charlie: Hollywood rule number 101. Uh–
Glenn: Well, so, so, I would start by just asking you–
Charlie: Okay. Hit me first.
Glenn: Um, what was the first–what was the very first acting thing that you did? And I don’t mean like professional. I mean like–
Charlie: Oh.
Glenn: what was the first time you performed, maybe you didn’t even realize that–that you were acting. But you were performing.
Charlie: I was–I was doing plays as a child. Like in–
Glenn: How young?
Charlie: Um, well I think the first like play, play was third grade. Ya know, I think uh–
Glenn: Really?
Charlie: Yeah I think in, in first grade or kindergarten I, I did a thing where I like walked on held like the intermission sign. And I remember holding it upside down. And everyone being like, “Oh that’s so cute. He got it backwards.” But little me was like, “Oh no. I knew that was gonna be funny. I did that, I did that on purpose.” And it was–I remember being scared that I did it on purpose. But like, “Oh man. They don’t know that I did this on purpose.”
Glenn: Yeah.
Meg: *Laughter*
Charlie: So like, already trying to get laughs. Like from day one.
Meg: That was your only role in that play? Was holding the intermission–
Charlie: Yeah. Come out to be like, “Intermission.”
Glenn: And you figured out how to make it about you.
Meg: “I’m gonna pop.”
Charlie: Yeah, ‘cause my mom was the like–
Glenn: That’s the sign of a real actor.
Charlie: Yeah. That’s the sign of–right, right. That bodes very well. Um, I figured out how to steal the scene from others. Uh, but like I–my mom–you know, my mom was the sc–the kindergarten through eighth grade music teacher. So they did like, school plays. Like at the school.
Glenn: Yeah.
Charlie: And usually plays had music, and so–um but sss–oh. No, it was second grade that we did um, we did uh, James and The Giant Peach.
Glenn: Okay. So the first–the first time you performed in something, it was uh, it was an actual play.
Charlie: I played James buddy. I had the lead.
Glenn: Woah.
Meg: Wow.
Glenn: Right out the gate.
Charlie: Right out the gate. Well you know what? Um, my teacher saw something in me. Uh, first she saw that I was good enough to do second grade twice.
Meg: *Laughter*
Charlie: That was her first observation. She’s like, “First of all. This–this kid’s way too young. And uh, falling behind.”
Meg: A repeat performance of second grade.
Charlie: Yeah.
Glenn: Yeah. There ya go.
Charlie: But then she’s like, “Secondly–” she’s like, “he’s such a clown. Like, why not like, try acting?”
Glenn: Were you a clown? Were you like class clownish?
Charlie: I think–yeah. I think probably.
Glenn: You were always making your friends laugh. And clown–or trying to at least.
Charlie: Yeah. Energetic and probably looking for attention.
Glenn: Uh-huh.
Charlie: And–but um, yeah we did James and the Giant Peach. And I had to sing, “Smile though your heart is breaking.” And I remember like, having to like work on the song. Which was new. Like having to work on a song.
Glenn: Mhm.
Charlie: Um, but I remember being like, “Oh yeah. This is right.” And she was like, “You should send him to like, auditions and–and things like that.” But, my parents thankfully were like, “Nah. No, he’s just gonna be a kid.”
Glenn: Yeah.
Meg: Oh. You’re–you’re happy about that though. You didn’t–didn’t wanna go the child star route?
Charlie: No.
Meg: Yeah.
Charlie: I–I wasn’t really thinking about it as a career. Ya know?
Meg: Mhm.
Charlie: I was just like, “Huh? That was just a thing I did.” Um–
Glenn: Yeah. And you were–I think you and I were maybe similar in that way like–’cause you were doing other things too? You were into sports and–
Charlie: Yeah. I did–I did a play again in fourth grade. And then, I didn’t do anything until my senior year of Highschool. Um–
Glenn: What? Wait a minute. So from fourth grade to senior year of Highschool you didn’t do–
Charlie: No.
Glenn: And you didn’t perform?
Charlie: Mm-mm.
Glenn: At all?
Charlie: No. Nope. Um–
*TIME STAMP 20:56*
Meg: Sports, and stuff?
Charlie: Yeah. I started getting more into sports, with my uh–
Glenn: Baseball, right? Was your main thing.
Charlie: Yeah. My good buddies in Rhode Island. You know. Um, and um, super into baseball. That was the main thing. And then, wanting to do a play. I remember in Highschool like seeing the plays in highschool. And being like, “Oh that looks like so much fun. But–” not knowing how to juggle that. And not having the confidence to just go sign up, right?
Meg: Mhm.
Charlie: Just being like, “I don’t know. I don’t know those kids and that world.” And then my senior–you know, by the time you’re a senior in Highschool you, I–you feel much more confident about yourself and uh–
Glenn: Right.
Charlie: school and so, I did it then. Um, but then–yeah, then it was, I went to highsc–I went to college and uh, was still very into baseball. And then very quickly realized like, “Oh. My baseball career is over.” And uh, was–took like Theatre 1 and Theatre 2. Which was all my college offered. But they had like, an acting club. And very quickly fell into it. Being like, “Oh this is the right fit for me. And it always was. And I should’ve realized that.” Or, the timing was great. I’m glad I didn’t do much before.
Meg: Meg.
Charlie: Um–
Glenn: Yeah.
Charlie: And then someone while I was there was like uh, “Hey. Go check out the Williamstown Theatre Festival.” Which was like a summer theatre festival. It was pretty prestigious thing in western Massachusetts. And you can intern there. And if you do well you can rise through the ranks. And that just–I went that, I went the summer of my junior year and never looked back. Never stopped doing acting stuff.
Glenn: Yeah.
Meg: You met all your friends there too, right?
Glenn: That’s where you–
Charlie: I met all the friends you know here, yeah. You know, half the people we know on the show.
Glenn: Yeah, yeah.
Charlie: Now Glenn, I’m gonna throw it right back at you. Where did it all begin?
Glenn: Uh, for me uh, honestly I think it was–it’s sort of a natural progression from like–I don’t know that I was–I mean I was, I think I was little bit class clownish. A little bit, but um, definitely I was always a little weird. Like in the sense that I’d like, I was always doing like voices and–you know what I mean? Like, just being like, yeah kinda silly and goofy. Yeah, definitely trying to make my friends laugh. I was always like, playing characters at home.
Charlie: Mm. Mhm.
Glenn: You know, when I would watch a movie I would play–I would just start doing the character–you know. It’s like, I didn’t know what I was doing. I thought, for all I knew every kid that. You know what I mean?
Charlie: Mhm.
Glenn: It made sense to me. Um, and then–
Charlie: Your parents are like so nervous. They’re like, “What is he doing?”
Glenn: “What is this weirdo doing?” Yeah. So, I–
Meg: “He just likes to inhabit other bodies.” You know? Like, you were just in that space. “He could be psycho. Might be an actor.”
Charlie: “Glenn just watch. Don’t act along. Just watch.”
*Laughter*
Glenn: Not possible.
Charlie: No. But I can see that, right. So you’re–you’re having those feelings that are like, “I want to be–”
Glenn: I just wanted to do it. You know what I mean?
Charlie: Be performing in some way.
Meg: Mhm.
Glenn: Yeah, yeah. I loved watching movies. But I wanna do it. And uh, but I didn’t know, you know, that that was a thing. Or that that was an avenue I wanted to go down. Or anything. But my parents–my parents actually had the opposite reaction. They, they, they watched it and they were like, “This guys want–he like, wants to do this.” You know what I mean?
Charlie: Mhm.
Glenn: Like clearly. And, by the time I got to like, I think it was fifth grade, and I started doing like–I hadn’t done a play or anything like that. But I was doing sketches, like, comedy sketches at school. Like whenever there was an opportunity to do something, I would do something like that. And then my parents, uh–there was in, in my hometown, in Montgomery, Alabama, uh, the Alabama Shakespeare festival is this great, really really awesome regional theater. Like, right smack dab in the middle of Montgomery, Alabama. And we would see plays there all the time. And I grew up watching theater too. Like, my dad, even though he was the airforce, and his dad was in the airforce. I think I’ve mentioned this before but his dad was uh, a Jazz musician. He played trumpet. He played piano. And his mom–my dad’s mom was a dancer. So he grew up around, like–very similar to like to the way I grew up. Like both super academic. But also like, in the arts.
Charlie: The arts were appreciated in that like, yeah–
Glenn: Yeah, yeah. So we would go see all the time.
Charlie: That’s great.
Glenn: Umm, and so–anyway. There was an actor from the Alabama Shakespeare festival who was teaching an acting class for kids. And my parents were like, “Do you wanna go do that?” And I was like, “Yeah. Definitely.” So I was like taking this acting class. And then from there the guy was like, “Hey. They need a kid just like you, to play a kid in one of the plays. Uh, at the Alabama Shakespeare festival. Would you be interested in doing that?” And I was like–
Meg: Oh.
Glenn: “Yes. Absolutely.” You know. I mean, I had grown up watching Shakespeare. Watching classical theater. Watching–you know, we lived in England for a short time. And we would go to Stratford-upon-Avon and watch the, you know, the Royal Shakespeare company you know, do their thing. And I just was enthralled by it.
Meg: Mhm.
Glenn: You know, I thought it was amazing. And so the very first play I did was uh, a play called A Month in the Country by Ivan Turgenev. So it was like a Russian, you know, very Chekhovian kind of uh, thing. And uh, and then that was it. I like–I was hooked.
Meg: Well, you say um, you got hooked, like what was it? Was it like the crowd feedback? Was it just the experience of doing the acting? Like what was the thing that like, “Oh I could do this for the rest of my life.”?
Glenn: It was, yeah–Well even then I wasn’t thinking of it–I wasn’t thinking I was gonna make a profession out of it.
Meg: Mhm.
Glenn: But I just, love it. I loved every aspect of it. I love the community. I love the people. I love the world. I lo–I just, I loved being on stage. I felt so comfortable on stage. I don’t know why.
Charlie: There’s a thing too where, I’m sure you’ve probably felt this way, where making a career out of it is–doesn’t even cross your mind.
Meg: Mhm.
Glenn: No.
Charlie: Because, you don’t know anyone who’s a professional actor. You’re not growing up in Hollywood where, you know, so and so’s uncle does it. Like, or dad. It, it just–it’s like a foreign world. They’re not real people on the screen. You know they’re not real people. So, it, it–you know, it just seems–it doesn’t even cross your mind.
Meg: Mhm.
Charlie: Wasn’t until–yeah. It wasn’t until Williamstown, that I saw professional actors. Who weren’t famous. That I thought, “Oh right. You don’t have to grow up to be–”
Meg: Yeah.
Glenn: No, yeah, right.
Charlie: “Tom Cruise. You could, you know, you could be this guy.”
Meg: Be a working actor, yeah.
Charlie: “This person’s in his mid 60s–”
Glenn: Yeah.
Charlie: “And has been working forever. And I don’t know like, I’ve never heard of him. But he has a, a career so–”
Glenn: That’s all I ever wanted, you know? Like, and I didn’t really figure it out until–and I kept doing plays all through junior Highschool. At my school, and Highschool. And then, but I still didn’t know I wanted to be an actor. ‘Cause I was doing the same thing as you. I was playing basketball. I was playing football. I was super into–weirdly, super into math and science. And I was gonna go to uh, um, to Auburn University to be an aeronautical engineer.
Meg: Oh.
Glenn: I was signed up for classes. I had a place to live with my friends. I was going to Auburn. To be an aeronautical engineer. And then I got a scholarship to this school in Miami.
Charlie: Yeah, what was that school called?
Glenn: New World School of the Arts.
Charlie: Right. And you were there for two years?
Glenn: I was there for two years. They, they, they had offered me a full scholarship and I distinctly remember my mom coming to me and saying, and this is such a rare thing to happen–but it was actually my mom who came to me and said “Hey. Do you think if you don’t go and try to be an actor, that you’re gonna regret it one day?”
Charlie: Mhm.
Meg: Wow. That’s a weighted question for a kid.
Glenn: Yeah. ‘Cause, ‘cause she was like, “‘Cause if there's any part of you that thinks you wanna do this, you should do it. Because it’s a full scholarship.”
Meg: Yeah.
Glenn: “It’s not gonna cost us a lot of money. And if you wanna–if you wanna quit after a couple years and go be an aeronautical engineer, you could that later.” You know. And I was like–
Charlie: Alright, so–
Glenn: “Done.”
Charlie: Now. So then you’re there. You’re in, in college for acting and the bug has bit you. Full on bite. When does Juilliard start to get on your radar? That it’s an option. That you want to audition for it. Um, and in addition to that, did you audition for all the other big schools? Did you audition for Yale? And NYU? And Carnegie Mellon? And or any of the other ones?
Glenn: Yeah. I auditioned for a bunch of em. Um, I didn’t uh, audition for those schools out of Highschool. So I just took the scholarship, went to New World, and then–but my roommate uh, Chris Romero. Shoutout. Uh, Chris Romero’s good buddy, he, he was from New York and his good friend, they had gone to a performing arts Highschool together. And his good friend, his best friend in New York was going to Juilliard. So he was like, after our second year he’s like, “I think I’m gonna go audition for Juilliard.” And I was like, “Yeah. Let’s do it.” And so I went with him.
Charlie: How nervous were you for the Juili–for the auditions?
*TIME STAMP 29:31*
Glenn: Honestly man. Like not that nervous?
Charlie: Really?
Glenn: I had such uh, uh, a degree of confidence in myself that was based on, I don’t know what. It just–I just–
Charlie: That’s great though. I mean that’s–
Glenn: I think I thought–I thought at the time–I remember. I actually remember sitting in the room, in one of the rooms just like, filled with actors. Filled with people. And I remember sitting there and thinking like, “I’m better than all these people.”
*Laughter*
Glenn: You know what I mean? But it wasn’t like a vein thing. It was like a confidence thing.
Charlie: No. I know what you’re talking about. Like, you, ugh–
Glenn: I was like, I could def–I, I, I just felt like, I don’t know.
Charlie: It is a profession of diluting yourself.
Glenn: Oh totally. Totally.
Charlie: Right? Like you have to, you don’t necessarily have to say “I’m the best at everything.” But at that young age it’s very useful to, to walk into an audition room and be like “Nah. I’m the best.” It’s a really useful tool. Just ‘cause then you walk into that room and have confidence. And then on, when you, start to have a career, you have to develop the skill of believing you’re another person. For you know, at least–
Meg: Mhm.
Charlie: the seconds between action and cut. You know, if it’s on film. But, alright so, uh, you, you, you do the audition. You’re feeling confident. You feel like it goes well. What–how long between the audition and when you hear you got in? And, and did you hear all the schools? Did you get into them all? Did you only get into Juilliard? What, what happened there?
Glenn: Yeah. I got into a few. I don’t remember which ones. I auditioned in the morning and then I had to wait a couple hours to find out who they–who was gonna get called back. And they only called back like five people. Out of like, 500 that were there that day. And they audition people all over the, all over the country or whatever. So it was only like 5 people when I got called back. So I was like, “Okay.” And that was a huge– and when that happened, and I was like “I got this.”
Charlie: Mmm.
Glenn: I just knew it. And now, I could have just as easily have not gotten it. But for some reason in my mind I was like, “I got this.” ‘Cause, what that was, that was like, “Okay. I did something right.” So then, so then for the callback I kinda had–and now was the callback was in front of the entire faculty. So like, before it was in front of like, you know, maybe like three or four faculty members. They called me back. Then it was the entire faculty. Like all of the faculty of Juilliard. Like, theoretically very intimidating. But in my mind I was like, I don’t know. I just, I was like, “Okay. If I got called back that means they liked what I did.”
Meg: Mhm.
Glenn: So it gave me even more confidence to lean even further into what I felt like I was capable of. So I had even more confidence. Uh, I was even less nervous in the callback.
Charlie: Mmm.
Glenn: I mean, I was nervous. Don’t get me wrong, I was definitely nervous. But like, I don’t know, it was like–
Meg: You felt capable of like, delivering on this thing.
Glenn: Yeah. Yeah. There was an excitement.
Meg: Did you do the same monologue–like, is it a monologue that you deliver? For that, for the audition.
Glenn: Yeah, we had to do–yeah, we had to do a classical monologue and a contemporary monologue. And then, and then uh, in the callback I did both the monologues. And then they asked me to do like, some improv stuff. And like–
Meg: And did you do comedy stuff or drama?
Glenn: I did uh, one, one was like uh, the classical piece was like uh, uh, uh from Jean Racine’s Phedre, and it was not comedy. Like very, very serious. And then the, then the contemporary was comedic. Yeah. If I had an edge over other actors, I do remember thinking at the time like, ‘cause I would watch other actors do their monologues. I’d seen–
Meg: Mhm.
Glenn: what they do. And I was like, the one thing that’s missing, from, from almost all these people, that I noticed right away, was like, they forgotten that this is supposed to be fun and entertaining.
Meg: Mhm. Yeah.
Charlie: Yeah.
Glenn: You know what I–they’re forgetting to entertain. It’s like, it’s, it’s not about squeezing tears out of your eyes and making people think like “Oh, wow. He’s such an amazing actor.” It’s like, fuckin’ entertain people.
Meg: Mhm.
Glenn: You know what I mean? If you look like you’re having fun up there, everybody kinda relaxes and goes “Oh this is, this is fun.”
Meg: Mhm.
Glenn: I, I, and they, so they, so they, then they wanna watch you because you make them feel good. It’s not about you, it’s about them.
Charlie: I remember having a similar experience. This was later. After I was starting to work at Williamstown a lot. But the like, we would, every now and then do like showcase in New York. And then–
Glenn: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Charlie: I remember like, yeah, like people do like six really serious monologues and I come up there and do something funny that like Eric Bogosian wrote–
Glenn: Yeah. Yeah.
Charlie: and then it’s like, “Oh.” That just gets everyone’s attention. But–
Meg: Mhm.
Glenn: Yep. That’s exactly what I did at uh, upon graduating from Juilliard. I did, we had to do two–you know, you had to do like two, like a showcase or whatever. We did two, two things and I chose comedies for both. ‘Cause I was like, “Every single person in my class is doing like these ultra serious, like deep, heavy–” And I was like, “I’m gonna fucking entertain the shit out of people.”
Meg: Yeah. And stand out.
Glenn: ‘Cause like, why not? See what happens.
Meg: Yeah.
*AD BREAK 34:04*
Meg: Rob’s not here. So for the purpose of this ad, Charlie will be playing Rob.
Glenn: Today we are brought to you by Draft Kings Sports Book. An official sports betting partner of Super Bowl LVII. And guess what? New customers can bet just five dollas. And get 200 hundred dollas in free bets instantly.
Charlie: Rob, how do you feel about that?
Meg: *Laughter*
Charlie: I’ll tell ya, Charlie. Plus all customers can get in on the Super Bowl LVII excitement. With Draft Kings Happy Hour Super Boost. Check the Draft Kings Sports Book app each day, between six and nine pm eastern, to see which prop bet gets boosted.
Glenn: Who you got man? Who’s your, who’s your pick this year?
Charlie: What do you mean who I got? The Birds! The Birds are in it. Who do you got?
Glenn: My money’s on Brady.
Charlie: Oh, you’re not taking the Eagles, Glenn?
Glenn: Oh, I don’t bet against Brady. I’ve learned that lesson time and time again.
Meg: Gonna leave in all this stuff in the film.
Glenn: Laughter*
Charlie: Okay, one, remember when the Eagles beat him? And two, Brady’s not even playin’!
Glenn: Wait, what happened? Is he hurt?
Charlie: Ah, no. He just didn’t make it.
Glenn: Yeah. I’m not buying it. Nice try though.
Charlie: Go ahead and bet on him Glenn! Leave that Eagles money to the rest of us. Download the Draftkings Sportsbook app and use code Always.
Glenn: So angry,
Meg: *Laughter*
Glenn: So angry.
Charlie: He’s just looking for a bit of justice, probably Glenn. Yeah, so, and new customers can bet five dollars on Super Bowl LVII and get 200 hundred in free bets instantly. Only at Draftkings Sportsbook with code Always.
Glenn: Now hang on a second here. ‘Cause minimum age and eligibility restrictions apply. Void in Ohio. See show notes for details.
*Music 35:50*
Meg: Rob’s not here today. So for the purposes of this ad, Glenn will be reading the part Rob. This show is sponsored by Betterhelp.
Charlie: Turn your hat around backwards, maybe.
Meg: *Laughter*
Glenn: Betterhelp is an online therapy service. Where licensed professionals can help you tackle issues you might be dealing with or just help you feel your best in general.
Charlie: When do you guys feel your best?
Glenn: Me? Oh, right after a shower. Yeah, that’s a good one. A nice cold shower. Oh okay, well you had me going there for the first part. The second half kinda threw me. Dude, dude, dude, dude, no. Cold showers rule man. They’re actually proven to reduce depression and symptoms of anxiety.
Charlie: Yeah, so you, you ought to feel your best you know, coming out one. Kinda like a, like a great therapy session. Now Meg, uh you, you’ve used Betterhelp. Right? Is it anything like a cold shower?
Meg: Yeah. I can attest that Betterhelp was great for me in the sense of working through and issue with someone I felt like understood it. I can’t attest to the whole, cold shower thing. But, it’s pretty good.
Charlie: No, right. Right, right.
Glenn: You guys are missing out on greatness.
Charlie: Betterhelp, as stimulating as a polar plunge.
Glenn: In a good way, if I’m being unclear. And it’s convenient, flexible, affordable, and entirely online.
Meg: *Laughter*
Glenn: If you wanna live a more empowered life, therapy can get you there.
Meg: So visit Betthelp.com/sunny today. To get ten percent off your first month.
Charlie: That’s Betterhelp H-E-L-P.com/sunny. Thanks Rob.
Meg: *Laughter*
*TIME STAMP 37:18* *AD BREAK OVER*
Charlie: Uh, so I, I went one summer as an intern to Williamstown. And then you can audition to get in. I remember, being so nervous about the audition. And I was like, I’m gonna cross the street to get a beer to like, calm down.
Glenn: Nice.
Charlie: You know, I was like, 21 I think. Um, maybe 22 already. But like, I’m in the audition and I’m doing Danny and the Deep Blue Sea, I think it was.
Glenn: Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Charlie: And uh, I’m saying my line, and he’s like, this kinda like brooding guy. It’s like uh, you know, before I only did comedy shit. Like, I’m playing like a blue collar, kinda like brooding guy. And I kinda like, punch the air conditioner like, not hard. But just like a little like, you know, like “Ah.” Or whatever the line is. And the thing like, the front of it comes off the wall and crashes.
*Laughter*
Charlie: I just quickly improv like, “See everything I touch turns to shit.” And then I just keep going on with the monologue. And apparently–
Glenn: Nice, nice.
Charlie: somebody pulled me aside after I got in being like, “That’s what for us, like all of us said like, oh, he’s an actor. ‘Cause he’s in it.” Yeah.
Glenn: Yeah. He’s in it. Yeah. He wasn’t thrown by that. He went with it.
Charlie: I wasn’t thrown by it. Right, which is–you never know like what little moment is gonna grab someone.
Glenn: Well, I learned very quickly like, to, to, that lesson of like, “Oh. People only get uncomfortable if you’re uncomfortable.”
Meg: Sure, yeah.
Glenn: You know what I mean? So, if you fuck up, you know like, I, I–
Charlie: Well that’s the thing like it, like, when you watch people host SNL. If they seem like they’re having fun–
Meg: Yeah.
Charlie: It’s a great episode.
Glenn: Yeah.
Charlie: If they seem like they’re nervous up there, ooo brother.
Glenn: That’s how they get, how you get nervous.
Charlie: You get nervous. You get uncomfortable.
Meg: But then the, yeah. The audience is like, feels bad for them.
Glenn: Yeah.
Meg: And so, I, I always notice it’s like the audience doesn’t wanna make any noise, almost. Because they, they’re worried, too worried to make noise one way or the other.
Glenn: Yeah.
Meg: For like the person. Then it gets–but yeah. When you come out and you’re like “I got this.” Like, “Don’t worry I’m–”
Glenn: Yeah. Everybody relax.
Meg: Yeah, and you exude that. But I don’t know that you can fake that. I think like you really have to be, feeling like–I tried to do stand up for a while when I first started doing comedy in New York. And like, I just wasn’t enjoying myself on stage. So, I could write funny jokes. But you could just tell when I was up there that I wasn’t liking it. And so then, the audience like, didn’t like–like they were just like I don’t know.
Glenn: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Charlie: Do you feel as though you’ve gotten more comfortable with the concept of being a performer, just from doing this podcast?
Meg: No, I just–
Glenn: Yeah, that’s a good question. I was gonna–I’ve thought about that too. I’m like, I’m like, “Are you weirdly becoming like, more comfortable on camera? And more at ease performing?”
Meg: No. It’s still really hard for me to watch the edits of these. And I, and I like, am irritated–I don’t enjoy, I don’t enjoy watching it. But I don’t think of this as a performance.
Glenn: Well but we’re not, yeah.
Meg: I think of this as just talking to you guys. Which I enjoy doing. And which I’ve gotten comfortable doing because we’re in the room. So, to the extent that I, perform in front of you because I pitch you guys stuff, and like try to entertain you, and make you laugh. I feel comfortable doing that. But I don’t really like, just in my mind think of this going out anywhere. I know that it does.
Charlie: Umm–
Glenn: Yeah, yeah. No, I know what you mean.
Charlie: Yeah. If you’re uncomfortable with like, seeing yourself on camera, you’re the same as every performer in the history show business. Like–
Glenn: Yeah, totally.
Meg: But, it’s amazing you guys can watch yourselves perform as much as you do. Because you’re in the edit bay, watching it all the time. And not have that like, weird–
Charlie: I’ll tell you what. It’s a good way of just like, uh, just getting over it.
Meg: Yeah.
Charlie: Because like, you just do it for so many years. You’re like, “Ah. I guess that’s what I look and sound like.” You know like–
Meg: *Laughter*
Glenn: I thought I was completely over it after spending years and years in the edit uh, on the show. And then I watched, ya know a cut of the uh, I think I can tell–yeah the blackberry movie. I was like, “Can I talk about this yet?” Yeah. And I was like, “Oh.” And I, and I thought the movie was great. But I just, I was like “God. This is really hard to watch myself.”
Meg: Oh, really?
Glenn: Yeah. And I just, it was like–
Charlie: What? No, your outfit or the way looked?
Glenn: No, no. Not the way I looked. No, um, my acting.
Charlie: Oh. Well that’s, that’s different.
Glenn: It was in, in this role, I will say I, I am uh, exploiting a side of myself that I don’t like.
Meg: Oh.
Glenn: That’s there, that I repress. Because it’s not–because it’s ugly and I don’t like it. I don’t like it as a, as–I don’t like people that are like that. And it, the role requires me to, required me to uh, be a person that I don’t like. And so when I watch it I’m like, “I don’t like that person.” But–
Meg: Oh. Okay. Well that’s different than like, not liking you’re acting. I think. That’s like, you like your acting so much that you–
Glenn: Well but I can’t separate–I know, I know.
Meg: like hate the person.
Charlie: Alright, so you, you go through uh, Juilliard. You get an agent from a Juilliard showcase and then you’re pretty much off to the races.
Glenn: I did exactly what they told us not to do. And they were like, “Don’t sign with somebody until you do the showcases.” But, by the time we did the showcases I already signed.
Charlie: Well, we had this conversation the other day in the van to set. Where, somehow we were talking about that time of our lives. And I was saying, you know, I, I had–around that time I had thought, “Oh boy. It’d be nice to go to an acting conservatory and get that training.” But, I, I also had through Williamstown gotten an agent and was starting to get auditions. Was starting to get roles. So I was like, “Well that feels like a step backwards.”
Glenn: Totally.
Charlie: And I also was like, “I have a lot of confidence. And I don’t wanna spend four years having someone break me down. To be like, hey your voice is to high, it’s scratchy–”
Glenn: Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Charlie: You know. Or like–
Meg: Uh-huh.
Charlie: whatever it is. So I was like, “Fuck it.”
Glenn: That was good instinct.
Charlie: But, but yeah. I think I dodged a bullet there. But–
Glenn: Met too.
Charlie: and I was saying, you know, “Was it tough to survive that?” And you said a really funny thing, about, and I think it was the absolute right advice. Which was that, you learn to just ignore the acting advice. Which was to say, but I think you’re right. Which was to say. You’re not, not listening. You’re listening to what they have to say. And if something you like from it–
Meg: Mhm.
Charlie: you go use it. Otherwise, you’ll ignore it.
Glenn: You know, it’s funny–the part of that story that I didn’t tell, was that in my rebellion against what I was being taught, I, I learned that I hadn’t really been listening before. And I started actually listening. Because I gave, I gave up on trying to–I think when you go to such a prestigious institution like Juilliard. ‘Cause it’s got this like, stigma attached to it. All be it, a positive one I guess. But, um, is you, you, you just, you have so much deference for the teachers there, right? And I saw, I, I realized at a certain point in my, this was actually at the beginning, the beginning of my third year there. That I got some really bad feedback in a play. And it pissed me off so bad, that I just went, “Fuck this shit. I’m not gonna listen to anything else these people say.”
Charlie: Yeah.
Glenn: “Fuck it. I’m just gonna–” I was like, “I forgotten what it was like to enjoy acting. I’m gonna go back to that. I’m not gonna do anything they tell me to do. I’m just gonna have fun.” And in that, what I learned was I was like, “Oh. I’ve been doing–and so much, many of us, had been doing the program in order to please the teachers.”
Meg: Mhm.
Glenn: In order to make them be like, “You’re getting it. Yes, yes.” You know? And then I, and I realized I was like, I was like, “Why am I doing this for them? I’m the one who’s spending all the money to go here. This is for me.”
Meg: Mhm.
Glenn: I’m like, “They’re there to serve me. To service my needs.”
Charlie: That’s really, that was wise. You know, for your age.
Meg: Yeah.
Glenn: Yeah.
Charlie: Because, you’re young, you’re vulnerable, you want–like that’s around the age where you say, “Okay. I’m committing to acting.” So you want it bad, right?
Glenn: Yeah.
Charlie: Like and, you’re so impressionable, is the right word.
Glenn: But I also, I was so lucky. Because my parents were so loving and supportive. That I felt like I had a foundation of love and support. So it was like, in some ways, the love and support of the teachers, was–became less important to me. Because I was like, “I, I have that. I don’t need that shit. I need you to teach me how to act.”
Meg: Mhm.
Glenn: “And if you don’t like what I’m doing, I don’t give a shit.”
Meg: *Laughter*
Glenn: “I don’t give a shit.”
*TIME STAMP 45:13*
Charlie: Yeah.
Glenn: “You’re not the fucking audience. You’re not the fucking audience. You’re my teacher. Teach me how to act. If you don’t like something, lets fix it, lets work on it. That’s fine. But don’t try and fuckin’ berate me. Don’t bring–don’t try and tear me down. Don’t try and–”
Charlie: It’s also not, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s–there’s not a science.
Meg: Mm-mm.
Charlie: And there’s no one way that’s gonna work for everyone. Like–
Glenn: Yeah.
Charlie: Everyone has a different method of how they get to do it. And everyone has different opinions on whether or not they’re doing it well. That’s the cr–
Meg: Yeah.
Charlie: You can teach someone how to fly a plane. And you go–you better be pretty damn exact about that..
Glenn: Yeah, yeah.
Charlie: But, you know like–
Glenn: Yeah. You don’t wanna get to artsy fartsy about flying an airplane, right?
Charlie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What are you feeling about flying an airplane?
Glenn: *Laughter* Yeah, yeah.
Meg: But I do think the way that you–Yeah, “What do I feel? Fuck them, they don’t me. I’m flying this plane for me.”
Charlie: “What do I feel? How do I feel?”
Glenn: “I don’t feel like landing today.”
Charlie: “What’s your motivation here? Uh, not killing everyone on the plane.”
Glenn: Yeah, yeah.
*MUSIC BREAK 45:56*
Charlie: For as much good advice as I got, I also got a lot of bad advice. And still, to this day get bad advice.
Meg: Yeah.
Charlie: Even on this movie that I’m finally getting out there. Like, you know when I was trying to retool it, and reedit it. And working on the scripts, I sent it to one writer friend who was like, “You, you got a great acting career. Just give up. And move on.” I’m like, “Give up? What are you talk–I love this thing. This is, this is great. I’m talking about making changes.”
*Laughter*
Meg: Yeah. Yeah.
Charlie: So, you know, just–If you have a passion–
Meg: Yeah.
Charlie: and a vision, you have to–and if you wanna be an actor or a writer, and you are passionate–
Meg: Yeah.
Charlie: And you have a vision, you have to like, go all, all go–
Meg: Yeah.
Charlie: What’s the–go–all, all, all coins in. What’s the term?
Meg: All in.
Charlie: All in. All guns blazing. I didn’t wanna say guns.
Meg: There’s really no like, good ideas that aren’t ideas that someone saw through to the end. Of being like, nothing is just so good that it kinda moves itself. Like, a person pushed that boulder up that hill.
Glenn: Almost every single time somebody to push–
Meg: Always. It really and, and, and you only in getting to the end realize that it was a good idea. At the end of it. But like, it’s, it’s, it’s that I’ve, I’ve had this with scripts. Like, the scripts that end up really great, and the scripts that end up horrible were equally as hard to make.
Charlie: Mhm.
Meg: You know? You just have to keep pushing through to the end to see like whether it’s gonna work or not.
Glenn: We’ve all known those people too.
Meg: Sure.
Glenn: Who are just like, who are just like, “How do I become a professional writer?” You’re like, “Well first off, what have you written?” “Well, nothin’.” “Ah. Well then you’re fucked.”
Meg: Yeah.
Glenn: And you know right away. You’re like, “You are never gonna–you are never gonna work.”
Meg: Yeah. “Try it out. See if you like it.”
Glenn: “You are never gonna work.” Same thing with like, I would have actors, like actor friends you know like, come to me and be like, “How do I get an agent?” And I’m like, “Well, are you doing anything right now?” And I’m like, “No. Like, well why aren’t you doing a play?” “Well, yeah, I don’t know. I like–” “Are you in an acting class?” “No.” I’m like, “You’re not doing anything.”
Meg: Yeah.
Glenn: “You’re not like–” I–
Meg: Just waiting for somebody to give you a job. Instead of building your skills that can get you that job.
Glenn: Yes, and–
Meg: “And once you get the job, you know how to do the job.”
Glenn: “You know how to do the job. ‘Cause you’ve been practicing.”
Charlie: I mean, I was listening to an interview with uh, Scorsese and De Niro. I was just like, flippin’ through what–like podcasts. I’d been with a lot of traffic working on this lot. So I was like, “Alright. Oh wow. This is an old interview of these guys from Tribeca film festival talkin’ about their movies.” And it was so interesting to hear how many of the movies they did, De Niro was bringing to Scorsese being like, “We should do this one. We should do Taxi– We should do uh, um, I think it was Raging Bull.”
Meg: Raging Bull. Yeah.
Charlie: “We should, we should do Casino.” And you’re like, “Right. He’s not just waiting. He’s like, come on man.” And these are some of his most iconic film roles.
Meg: Yeah.
Charlie: And so, yeah. You can’t–
Glenn: You think that you, you think that a lot of like, really really famous actors are just sitting back and accepting offers. But the truth is if you really want to get the things that you’re passionate about. You’re actually excited about. Not just work, you know. You have to, yeah. You gotta continue to hustle constantly.
Charlie: Yeah. You, I mean, the phone is ringing for so very few people.
Glenn: Yeah.
Charlie: And, what’s interesting is like, you get to a certain point, the calls you get are, are the movies where, you’ll help them.
Glenn: Sure.
Charlie: Where it’s like, “We can’t get the money but you’ll help us.”
Glenn: That’s right, yeah.
Charlie: But you don’t get the calls where, the–it will help you.
*Laughter*
Glenn: No. That’s exactly right.
Charlie: Yeah, yeah. You know, like–
Glenn: That’s a really good point.
Meg: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Charlie: Unless you’re lucky. And then every now and then, you know like.
Glenn: No. That’s 100 percent right.
Meg: Yeah. Or you’re bringing to the table like, you wrote the movie. So–
Charlie: Like you wrote the movie, yeah.
Meg: Yeah. So you get to be the lead of it.
Charlie: Yeah.
Meg: And then you get to cast like–
Charlie: And even then it’s like, it’s like a constant battle even to get it done. And get it sold. And like, then you get stuck ‘cause you want it to be great. And you know, I, I fortunately got to call Guillermo and Guillermo was, wasn’t like “Hey, give up.” He was like, “Put everything into making it as good as you can.” And he was like, thank god I did.
Glenn: Guillermo of course, being most famous for playing Pappy McPoyle.
Charlie: For Pappy McPoyle, yeah. Everyone knows him as Pappy McPoyle.
Meg: That’s what he’s known for.
Glenn: That’s what he’s most known for, yeah.
Meg: Well, I, that’s how you guys started doing it. Why are you still doing it?
Glenn: Still doing what, acting?
Meg: Acting, yeah.
Glenn: I, I, I *Laughter*
Charlie: I love it so much.
Glenn: I have often, you know, well I just–I’ve said so many times “I just wanna be an actor. I just wanna be an actor.”
*Laughter*
Meg: “I don’t wanna do the rest of it.”
Glenn: “I don’t wanna write. I don’t wanna produce.” And, and yet I can’t seem to stay away from all the other stuff too. I don’t know, it’s like, uh, I, I, I can’t–like, I think I just can’t–I don’t have really, uh, I’m not good at just sitting back and waiting for things to happen. So I inevitably end up getting involved in something. And, I mean god knows I’ve, I’ve tried to write and produce so many things that did–that haven’t gotten made.
Meg: Sure.
Glenn: Um, but uh, you know, yeah. But the, but the, it–it’s still like all of it, like it all feels–I have imposter syndrome when it comes to, almost everything other than just being an actor. Uh, I’ve been writing on Sunny for 16 years. Since the very, very beginning. And ya know, uh, when people refer to me as a writer, I’m like, “Nope. I don’t know what you’re talking about.”
Meg: *Laughter*
Glenn: “I don’t–I have no idea how to write.” Which is ridiculous.
Meg: Yeah.
Glenn: Ridiculous, you know what I mean? I, I, I still struggle with identifying as anything other than an actor.
Charlie: Well, going back to the uh, you know, whether or not someone should or shouldn’t pursue acting. I don’t know anybody, I, I–by this point in our lives, we know people who started out and have sort of given it up. I don’t know a single person that’s that, who gave it up, who regrets the time that they did it.
Meg: Sure.
Charlie: Right? Like, I don’t know anyone who was like, “Oh man. I really regretted doing those three movies. Or doing those plays. Or doin’ that television series.”
Meg: Mhm.
Charlie: Or whatever it was. So I, I think there is value if, if it is something that you really feel as though you love and you want to do.
Meg: Yeah.
Charlie: Give it a shot.
Meg: Give it a shot.
[End Credits]